Mr. Fenton, while I admire your position as a journalist, I must oppose…well, pretty much everything you have written – especially your positions on the economic front. I understand that you are paid for this but also think that you may be singing for your supper here rather than writing about what you actually believe. I’ve put your original text in italics and have written my thoughts below yours.
I understand this may be too much to follow given your viewpoint. But remember, that your entire text in it’s entirety is included – in italics. Just in case you forgot what you wrote.
Green Energy Opponents Are the Real Job Killers
David Fenton
January 13, 2011
Listen to how we discuss clean energy in this country, and you'll note that the conversation is exactly upside down. To hear the mainstream discourse tell it, clean energy may be a nice idea but it's prohibitively expensive. Going green, it's said, will cost jobs and strangle growth at a time when America must do whatever it takes to get our economy and people working again. Environmentalists are going to raise everyone's energy bills. We're the "job killers."
OK, I guess I am confused here with your charge against the mainstream discourse. Are you talking about the media here? If so, your comment would be exactly upside down. Palin was criticized for “Drill Baby, Drill” by the Mainstream Media (heretofore known as the MSM). And Going Green will strangle growth and decrease employment. It’s very simple – as I will show.
This framing of the issue runs 180 degrees counter to the actual facts of life in the year 2011. Clean energy transformation is the best—perhaps the only—path to economic and job growth, including rebuilding our industrial base and competitiveness. As British economist Nicholas Stern has said of clean energy, "These investments will play the role of the railways, electricity, the motor car and information technology in earlier periods of economic history."
While you have a very impressive quote from someone that nobody has heard of – it is very possible that this could be the new industrial revolution. However, while I wasn’t there at the time, I would guess that it wasn’t being crammed down everyone’s throat in order to make it happen. I am curious however how the framing of this issue runs 180 degrees counter to the actual facts. But I’m sure we’ll see in your writings going forward. Clean Energy transformation is certainly not the best path to economic and job growth. In fact this sentence just doesn’t make sense. I’m sure you understand that many, if not all, of the windmills that are currently being installed in the Midwest are in fact manufactured in Europe. And imported through the Port of Indiana at the southern tip of Lake Michigan. Hey…so far so good right? We put people to work unloading boats! I’m not seeing how this is helping employment since these people would have been working anyway – just unloading steel pipes, electric motors, and screws and bolts – rather than working in the factory to manufacture these products. But I’m sure you knew that…..
Renewable energies, if properly financed and combined with energy-saving investments, will lead to lower net energy bills for Americans, cheaper transportation and price stability. With a smart grid, the savings from new refrigerators, cars, lights and air-conditioners that use far less energy will more than compensate for the relatively small increases in electric rates needed to discourage carbon and switch to wind and solar. McKinsey & Company's 2009 report "Unlocking Energy Efficiency in the U.S. Economy" shows that for every dollar spent making buildings and appliances more efficient, we'll get two in return. What other investment can match that? The same report estimates that the United States could reduce annual energy consumption by 23 percent with net dollar savings (not counting savings in transportation from vehicles, which would add more). And this is based on the price of fossil fuels remaining constant, which it won't.
Well, with this statement, you pretty much prove the theory of “Cap and Tax.” “Renewable energies, if properly financed” – Government subsidized…hey it’s working for Amtrak right? Oh…they are still bankrupt…. “with energy-savings investments” – huh? You mean tax credits right? From a government that is pretty much bankrupt. “will lead to lower net energy bills for Americans” – thank you government subsidies. We’ll pay the balance in taxes…because it’s not in our electric bill every month. “Cheaper transportation and price stability” – really? You think so? Wow….keep drinking the kool-aid.
Then you go on to say that with a smart grid…You actually support raising energy rates in order to discourage carbon to switch to solar and wind. Do you, or more importantly your readers understand who this is going to affect? It’s not the “millionaires making $200,000 a year or more” as your political disposition likes to believe. This will be the single mom making $10K per year with 2 kids that was happy to salvage a refrigerator out of the trash that worked. It’s not energy star rated and was probably built in the 80’s. Oh yes I did… I just used your own words against you…
I can’t say I’ve ever heard of McKinsey & Company but would guess you work there. This sounds a lot like Pelosi and the unemployment benefits. $2 in return for every $1 spent. Really…come on now. They why is the government pushing it. If this was the case, then it would have already been done by a private entity. You advocate that we will double our money. So did Pelosi and unemployment. With her plan, we could pay everyone to be unemployed and double our money! I call B.S.
You did have one correct statement. The price of fossil fuels will not stay constant. They will fluctuate up and down. Currently, they are up. However, they will fall. It’s called a cycle and you offer no indication on what your baseline is for this assumption. No link, no further info. Just that this is what it is. Keep your Kool-Aid.
Meanwhile, it is well established that labor-intensive investments in solar, wind and increased building efficiency create far more jobs than similar investments in fossil fuels. These technologies will most likely go down in cost while fossil prices will only go up long-term. And with a renewable energy economy, there is no cost of fuel or fuel price volatility. Imagine that.
Wow…Labor Intensive Wind and solar farms? Have you ever driven through a wind farm? Or a solar farm? I have…in the corn fields of Illinois. Guess how many people you see? Even under construction? At most – I’ve seen three trucks. Three. Even if each truck carried three people each…that’s 9 people. No, not per windmill….per HUNDRED windmills. That certainly doesn’t seem labor intensive to me compared to keeping a coal fired electricity plant running. Or even a nuclear plant running.
And this is during construction that there are about 9 people working. What happens when construction is done? How many people work there after construction? Oh…one or two to do maintenance? On a hundred windmills/solar panels? This is where there is no volatility. You have two people working – that are likely not union (sorry, but the people in the heartland are not particularly union folk…Once you get out of the big cities, they just want to go to work and live their lives…they don’t need to be told what to think).
Yet, despite this mountain of evidence, clean energy supporters have allowed themselves to be tarred as the public's economic enemy by the very fossil fuel forces whose policies will guarantee the economic decline of America. As long as the public conversation remains tethered to these ridiculous assumptions, you can be sure there will be no progress made in Washington against the major challenge facing our civilization—climate destabilization.
Well, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill and need to go out in the real world. You apparently haven’t left your desk and been out to drive through the farm fields of Indiana and Illinois and Iowa. The clean energy supporters have been tarred as public enemy because since the 60’s they have been wrong. Now….you say in this paragraph about the ‘very fossil fuel forces whose policies will guarantee the economic decline of America” however later in this same article – you talk about giving prosperity to Middle East nations. Where exactly do you think you get prosperity in the middle of the desert? Oh…it’s OIL!! How much Oil is under the US and/or just off the coast? And why are we not drilling for our own consumption? These are truly the policies (as implemented by Obama – stopping offshore drilling) that are crippling economic prosperity.
And congrats on coining your own phrase – even though it comes with no explanation or theory – What the hell is “Climate destabilization?” It will snow here tomorrow. That’s climate destabilization. Low pressure is moving in…..other than that, it has absolutely nothing to do with..well...anything, but put “climate” in front of it and it apparently means something for the MSM to pick up.
With the campaign for green jobs, progressives and environmentalists have made some headway in conveying our positive economic message, but we remain too often on the defensive. Why not come out swinging? We should hammer home the point that sticking to fossil fuels will guarantee the economic decline of our country. It will lead to much higher gasoline and food prices, as world demand increases; losing the next industrial wave to China and Korea; the transfer of even more of our wealth to the Middle East; trillions more for resource wars; the enormous costs of climate adaptation and climate disruption. Droughts, floods, snowpack loss, loss of agriculture and drinking water—not exactly economic benefits.
Wow…now I want to get out the Tye Dye and smoke another one….You can’t be serious here. And you should be on the defensive as you have pretty much nothing to defend. That’s why you are attacked.
First, you haven’t proven anything economically. Think about how many people it takes to run a coal plant or nuclear plant and how many people it takes to run a wind farm. Wow…there’s job growth.
Sticking to fossil fuels will contrarily lead to prosperity in this country – if we will only drill. Unfortunately, you and your types are too busy hugging trees to realize that we should be drilling oil here where along the Alaskan oil pipeline the wildlife is thriving rather than dying as you would like to claim. In the same paragraph, you also contradict yourself – you say that this is the death of us…but you say that we are transferring wealth to the middle east. Uhh..which one is it? Is there wealth in Fossil Fuel? If not…then why are we transferring it? If so – why are we transferring it to the middle east? Oh…it’s because we are stifled by the Federal Government from drilling. I'm a believer that you have predicted an opportunity - the increased demand for fossil fuel in the world market. We should capitalize on that by drilling rather than moving away from it. Use this to finance the new energy markets.
Then you really go off the deep end….Losing the next industrial wave to China and Korea. Have you been to Wal-Mart lately? That’ pretty much all that is there. Made in China, Made in Korea, Made in Taiwan, Made in Vietnam. And why would that be? I’ll answer….undue and overreaching of the federal government into a free market society. And those are COMMUNIST COUNTRIES. They are KICKING OUR ASS on a manufacturing front. It’s not even close anymore. Why? American citizens are too good to make $6.00 per hour and no benefits. They have to make $18 per hour otherwise it’s not worth going off of unemployment. This is the American mentality today. We’re too good. All along, we are losing our edge and competitive edge. I fear where this country will be. Have you seen their environmental reports? They had to shut down factories before the Bejing Olympic Games to get rid of the pollution haze. Now that's really responsible environmental government and change you can believe in!
The rest of this paragraph is right out of Al Gore’s book…and is just a bunch of alarmist crap. I’ll leave it at that.
We also have good news to tell. Energy analysts have calculated that to charge a plug-in hybrid or fully electric vehicle with wind power, at today's prices, costs the equivalent of well under $1 for a gallon of gas. And that's a dollar that stays in America. The latest projections for the price of solar electricity show steeply declining costs over the next few years. Already, companies like SunRun and Sun Edison are growing rapidly by converting homes and offices to solar with no money down, offering lower energy bills over twenty-year contracts.
But you don’t account that the Chevy Volt will cost over $35,000 AND you will have to have a 220 plug put in your garage, AND you will have to buy a power conversion station. Also remember that until your “smart grid” or everyone in America has a windmill whipping in their back yard…this electricity will be powered by…wait for it….COAL!!!!
So with your windmills and solar panels you will put all of the people working in these plants as well as the coal miners, refiners, trucking, etc. in order to have “clean” energy. Buy up those Chevy Volts. It’s powered by coal and nuclear.
It's time we claimed our position as the true pro-growth forces, painting the tiny group of companies standing in the way, and their corrupt political agents, as anti-growth. Because that's what they are. Anti-growth for everyone but themselves.
Call someone at Commonwealth Edison, Nisource or another energy company. Many of which are beginning to augment their portfolio with wind farms and solar…to cut labor cost.
The Wall Street Journal—anti-growth. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell—anti-growth. Exxon, Peabody, the Koch brothers, Midwestern utilities resisting change, BP, Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, Sarah Palin—all standing in the way of a better economic future for America. All leading us to further industrial decline, decaying infrastructure, job loss and much higher energy and food prices.
And you call the Republicans name callers? Actually, Boehner is from Ohio – a huge manufacturing state. I won’t even comment on this one. You blame food prices on these guys due to not going to green energy? You probably believe that cow farts are also causing global warming due to the carnivores not being vegans. Wow…this is an insane paragraph.
When are the White House and the Democratic leadership going to come out swinging? The real job killers are the Republicans. Do you think rejecting science is good for economic and technological innovation? Do flat-earthers generate economic growth?
I hope the White House and Dems do come out swinging with some of the stuff you have posted here. I’m just a regular guy and can see right through all of the BS you are trying to throw around. This could only get better when the argument is coming from someone who is a heck of a lot more educated on the subject than I am. That would be coming to a knife fight with a lego block. Yes..you would have the lego block.
Uhh…flat-earthers? Huh? Guessing this is your attempt at an insult at conservatives being pretty much neanderthals. And yes…they generate the job growth. They own the companies. Don’t like it? Start a company and make it successful. They you will be the one that is different. Until then, keep collecting.....
We also need to get more aggressive about the science, not just the economics. Climate and Congressional skeptics need to be put on the defensive, and the media must be challenged to stop placing industry propagandists on an equal footing with published, peer-reviewed climate scientists. It's time to attack the Washington flat-earthers leading their city to the inevitable flooding of the nation's monuments and heat deaths from weeks of scorching temperatures.
OK, you are now way off the deep end now with the flooding of the national monuments and heat deaths. In fact, any credibility you may have had through the article has now just been lost. You complain about extremist position….and then take an extremist position. Wow….
If we don't show that our path leads to prosperity, and theirs to economic decline, we won't win legislation now or in the next Congress. We won't get the R&D and investment funds the industry needs. We won't end fossil fuel subsidies or restore Americans' jobs. And we will still be trying to get a price on carbon five years from now or even later.
Only problem is that you can’t PROVE your path leads to prosperity. You can’t PROVE that the other leads to economic decline. Here’s a challenge. As soon as you prove that Dubai Saudi Arabia has seen prosperity due to using solar power – I’ll believe you. Here’s a hint….DUBAI IS IN THE FREAKIN’ DESERT! THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF SUNSHINE! But they got their wealth from…………..(fill in the blank here). In fact it's been disproven. And Americans aren't buying what you are selling.
But here it is…the plea for subsidies – not an end to them…but a shift of them. For R&D funding from the government. Here’s a newsflash….the “Obama money” comes from the taxpayers. That’s where the money comes from. The taxpayers.
Let's get serious about communicating our clean energy vision and solutions to the broad American public. Only by winning them over can we generate the pressure to overcome the special interests' stranglehold on Washington.
It's time to turn the debate right side up.
Unfortunately, I believe your argument in Left side up. Not Right side up. And I don’t get paid to write this.
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Source URL: http://www.thenation.com/article/157727/green-energy-opponents-are-real-job-killersLabels: climate change, climategate, drill, hope change, hopey changey, oil