DRCD - The People Have Spoken - Exceptional Benefit Tax Next?
By a sweeping majority, the people have spoken and elected Mr. Littlewood to the board of the Damon Run Conservancy district. Congrats Chad and good luck to the board as we push forward.
As in my previous writings, I am extremely concerned with the push toward the change in the tax structure. I have seen the email that "They seem to have duped us again!" Personally, I don't see it that way and actually wonder why this wasn't discovered by anyone other than myself and using the Chesterton Trib and NWI Times as my references...isn't there a lawyer on the case that is involved in over a half a dozen of these conservancy districts?? I think this was more an oversight than being "duped" or lied to. But anyway...
You may or may not have seen the recent article about the Falling Waters Conservancy District. You can read all about it here:
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/article_36b5de31-b1f0-5c57-ac7d-caace0426681.html
In a nutshell, Falling Waters has the type of tax that many in this district believe will be the savior of the tax situation. Guess who the attorney is for Falling Waters...yep....same one that is being employed by those who donated to get the tax changed....
Looks as though the developer is nowhere to be found and he still owns at least 250 lots - $438,250 per year. And he hasn't paid the taxes on the lots that he owns. For two years. For a million bucks. So instead of the developer paying several thousands, he is paying zero. For two years. And now there will be a tax sale - where they may not recover the entire million. Guess who will shoulder the costs that aren't recovered? Guess who would shoulder more costs should it happen again? And who will really buy these lots to develop on.
And that subdivision isn't full yet. Wonder why nobody is building out there.....
As in my previous writings, I am extremely concerned with the push toward the change in the tax structure. I have seen the email that "They seem to have duped us again!" Personally, I don't see it that way and actually wonder why this wasn't discovered by anyone other than myself and using the Chesterton Trib and NWI Times as my references...isn't there a lawyer on the case that is involved in over a half a dozen of these conservancy districts?? I think this was more an oversight than being "duped" or lied to. But anyway...
You may or may not have seen the recent article about the Falling Waters Conservancy District. You can read all about it here:
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/article_36b5de31-b1f0-5c57-ac7d-caace0426681.html
In a nutshell, Falling Waters has the type of tax that many in this district believe will be the savior of the tax situation. Guess who the attorney is for Falling Waters...yep....same one that is being employed by those who donated to get the tax changed....
Looks as though the developer is nowhere to be found and he still owns at least 250 lots - $438,250 per year. And he hasn't paid the taxes on the lots that he owns. For two years. For a million bucks. So instead of the developer paying several thousands, he is paying zero. For two years. And now there will be a tax sale - where they may not recover the entire million. Guess who will shoulder the costs that aren't recovered? Guess who would shoulder more costs should it happen again? And who will really buy these lots to develop on.
And that subdivision isn't full yet. Wonder why nobody is building out there.....
posted by dickieh5150 at 10:48 PM
178 Comments:
I wish you did get a chance to meet the other candidates. Unforuniately the elected one had the e-mail address's and works from home.
Its ashame you didn't meet Robert Wilson. He was one of the other candidates and he too did not advocate the tax change. Mr. Wilson was far more qualified for the position.
He took two weekends to get out and go door to door to meet with and inform all including those left off the information list of the newly elected member because they had a different view of his issue's. He attended meetings but for some reason only the Littlewoods name appeared in the minutes. Wonder why, election maybe?
Well "it seems we were duped" also was a interesting to me. Now instead of pushing forward with the 56 lots paying in he wants to hold off so as not to scare the hospital away. I got news for him the hospital is not going to sign on with us.
Then he, after blasting Jack, now cares about him instead of the freeholders who put him in.There is a tight connection between those two that not many know about.
So it looks like relief is in the air a long,long time from now. Save your money or sell your house. This would be a good year to do that!
Sleep well and congratulations on the sweeping majority that voted him in. Oh hey here's a tip for you, Bernie Madoff is back in the investment business look him up.
"Duped again?" What is this? The answer to our prayers? I donated my hard "taxed" earned income for the hope that we might get some relief in this "tax situation" but instead I got "duped again". Seems like a meaningless answer to an endless situation. Because I am not involved in the Porter County Political Arena, I can't help but feel that not only have I been out of the loop and deprived of vital information that at the very least would explain where my taxes and fees are going.....I simply dwell on the barbaric reality that we the free holders are being robbed of our rights and raped by the very district that claims to be working on a resolution to this expensive problem.
Is there anyone besides the "board" it's "Ill scratch your back if you scratch mine mentality" who are up to their necks full of contractual breaches and conflicts sof interests that can help us?
Speaking of my donated dollars……it is very suspicious that as soon as a freeholder gets “appointed” , I mean elected, to the board, he automatically changes his mind and his “fight for the cause” from let’s over throw the King, (Jack), to hey, he can help us so let’s support him. Surely I am not the only person who has noticed this. And why is it that those people who could not afford to donate were omitted from the discussions or left out of the loop? This is a matter that concerns more than just “the gang” and was it ever considered that our neighbors did not donate because the have all of these “hidden fees” to pay?
For the people by the people I say……but in DRCD you only count if you can pay the fees!
It is amazing to me how the simple minded work. With a discovery of new information, the simple minded will stay their course regardless of its consequences. The intellect, on the other hand, will consider the newly discovered information, and make a decision. I know of no individual who has spent more time gathering that information, confirming that information, and processing that information than Chad Littlewood. For those who live in a world of "short" investments, staying the course and hanging the jerk (Jack Barko) that got us into this mess would certainly make sense. Lower my taxes for a few years, so I can sell my place and get the hell out of here. For the rest of us, we need to consider all of the facts intellectually, and consider their outcomes. Chad in no way has changed his position. He stands for providing the truth, and communicating it to those who request it. For those who do not pay for the services of our legal counsel and then bitch about information regarding it, I say "for shame". It's not your money, and you have no say. Chad continues to stand for truth and the best interests of the entire DRCD community which is why he is communicating this information. He has made no decision on his position about taxation of this District. He is giving us all an opportunity to speak to him so that he can make a decision which is in the best interest of the entire community. Don't take his words lightly simply because you begrudge the man. He's doing the best he can with a very delicate situation and deserves a lot more respect than that. Lastly, the "list" of the "gang" was derived by Chad thru countless hours of door to door service, email updates, and hard work. I'm certain you have offended many households with your pointless gibberish. We donated our funds to find out just what those "hidden fees" are and to make sure there would be no more of this funny business going forward. I hope you are proud of your baseless accusations.
I'm sorry CP but GT gets my vote. I believe, if your the person I think you are, your pretty close to Chad so I see a vested interest in your support for him. About the only thing of substance in your rebuttal to GT was, well, frankly nothing.
Lets see Chad sure did his homework on number of homes under plat!? How did the lawyer miss it? As for rights who are you to decide? GT pays a heck of a fee to live here,and the fact Chad is on the board gives GT the right! In fact it soulds like there's conflict of interest now that he is handling both and keeping information from legitimate freeholders. How you can say Chad hasn't changed his position on pushing vigeriously forward with the assesment application is puzzling to me? Or as you say to GT "simple minded" Especially the email he sent out prior to the election containing a suggestion that the board should re-appoint Jack to the next vacant position because of his knowledge.You did get that one?right?uh?
Where do you draw the line on information for freeholders in the lawsuit and those not and who dose it?I did some research of my own Mr CP and maybe you can answer some of these questions for me. Who did Chad sell his lawncare business to? Did Chad do business with the conservency, Jack Barko and the(2)subdivisions within at any time? Does the person he sold the business to do the work for the Conservancy and Jack Barko? Isn't he the same guy that frames, or did, homes for Jack Barko? Making money isn't that what its all about CP?
I know what kind of person you are CP. You like to talk down to people throwing in a couple cuss words for effect. Hey watch that bitch word I just might be one!
I think you have offended many households by your condesending tone and manor.
I believe in people having the right to voice their opinion and allowing for a different view on information at their disposial even if I find it "pointless gibberish." I WOULD HAVE ENOUGH CLASS NOT TO SAY IT.
Speaking of pay I believe your stance that,"Chad hasn't changed his mind",is to prevent people from asking for their money back. So how does someone get their money back if they don't view these new revelations as you do?
In closing I would like to reiterate,(I know one vote per house),my vote is with GT.
P.S.
Please don't hang Jack!
Do we even know how the donations are being spent? Is the lawyer being paid? Is Chad being paid? Seems more questions then answers!
I gave but choose to remain anonymous for fear of being cut off and outcast by the powerful click thats already been assembled early in the game. Ah politics you got to love it.
I think meetings need to be scheduled so as to get everybodys imput and make sure when someone says the majority that its a fact.There is too much control by one individual right now. Other people need and want to get involved first hand but can't because of the tight control on information releases (resembles the media of today).
I am not saying Chad hasn't worked hard nor taken the lead in this matter but he chooses to handle it with a select few and thats not right.
How about a detailed account of how the money has been spent.I have donated and to date have not received anything except a request to get signatures and donate more money?
SO
So smart! If YOU didn't know this plat information was incorrect, why not? Everyone had an opportunity to research for themselves, but chose not to. If you DID know about this erroneous plat information, why didn't you speak up? I think Rob is a nice guy. But, why didn't anyone get a chance to meet him? Was he out communicating his position? Did he visit houses, make databases, raise funds, hire an attorney, and share information every step of the way? Why didn't he bring up the plat information? Why didn't Rob get more votes than Jack, at least?
Chad has done all the work to meet people, create a database, communicate information, and receives a TON of support for that. Just see the results of the election. He still receives a TON of support from the freeholders after sharing what must have been very difficult for him to share so late in the game. It's not just people close to Chad that support him. IT IS THE MAJORITY!
I thought the minority share needed to at least hear from one of his many supporters. To conflict that statement would be silly considering the results of the election. If you feel your movement is strong enough, I say go out to the public and derive your own following. Speak up and LEAD like Chad did. May the best win!
If I agree with YOUR position, you bet I’ll join. But, I disagree. Not because I’m Chad’s friend, but because I do not believe it serves the best interest of our community given the recent information received. The only thing that this forum seems to stand for is to smear the character of an individual who doesn’t deserve it. It’s saddening and shameful. Bring information to change my position back. Don’t just MF a guy because you don’t like him or THINK he MAY be on the other side. I can assure you he is not. In fact, just ask Chad how the housewarming has gone with the board? Oh wait, YOU don’t trust him because of unfounded allegations which do nothing but fuel a fire in the hearts of the few. The many believe in Chad.
Instead of uncontrolled ranting and raving why don't you answer the questions posed. I guess its typical and easier to slam the web site and the freeholder donor instead of supplying inteligent answers to the questions.Your insults are beneath me and your inablity to answer the questions increase our suspicion.
Again I ask the same questions where does the money go and how is it spent? Why have we not received an account of how its been spent.
As far as not finding out about the plat information why would I? I thought that was what Chad and the lawyer were doing? Donations remember?
I don't have all the time in the world to research this information. I have to work and not from home! If I could work from home and was paid it would be no problem.
Hell we can't even get the meetings schedule at a working mans time.
The simple point is be more open have meetings outside the DRCD's.
The more open and the more information outside of e-mails. Give us a chance to discuss them in a forum setting to eliminate the suspicions.
I plan to live here for the long term. We don't want to see Chad fail either.
Fool me once shame on you (DRCD did) Fool me twice shame on me!
I'm not blind and I don't follow blindly. I am from the showme state "say it then show me where it is written.
Again!!!! I am not looking to start a new movement. I demand that all freeholders be given information they are entittled to weather they are in the lawsuit or not. It will affect them and if they don't like it then they can get a lawyer and we can have lawyer wars. The lawsuit was not donation manditory at first know it is.
Again I say "some builder lots added would be better then none".As for Rob,yes he is a nice guy but that not our issue nor point.
If this MFS continues as noted above then it will be neccessary to obtain a lawyer.I hope not. I see absolutly nothing wrong with the above requests unless you are a blind follower.
Thank you SO
To SO & GT,
I’d be happy to answer your questions, but I’m not the guy you need to speak with. My goal here was to make sure that the character degradation ceased. I’m glad to see that the smearing has paused, and you’re now willing to just look at the facts. If you want to know where money donated to the cause has gone, why don't you ask the person in charge of the funds? Have you? If he won’t tell you, has he at least told you why it’s a big secret? If you disagree with his view, have you asked for a refund? The fact is that Chad is awaiting a final attorney bill to begin refunding unused funds, and no, Chad is not making money to do any of this. He has donated his time. I’d also like to address the guilty by association conspiracy theory. Let’s propose that allegations of Chad’s relationship to Mr. Barko are factual. If that is true, then we freeholders still have no one who serves the best interests of the community that pays the bills, right? Why then, would Chad continue to fight for the 2 additional board seats? Think about it. We, freeholders, cannot possibly make the same mistake 2 more times and vote in Barko’s “moles”. That would, at least, give us 2 votes in our interest. With only 11 months until the next board seat is up for election, we’d then secure the majority vote. If Chad fought to just keep things the same, then we’d have 0 votes until next Feb. Then, we will only get 1 vote and still have a minority share. I think your allegations are way off base. How do you know these alleged dealings with Jack left Chad didn’t go sour? If so, is it possible that those sour dealings were the motivating factor for Chad to take things to the level for which they are today? Remember, he is DONATING his time.
I’m open to hearing more of YOUR theory if I’m missing something. Lastly, yes I did see the email suggesting Jack take Jennifer’s seat. Note, that our (the freeholder’s) voting power would remain the same. The key would be that Jack would be able continue building rapport and relationships with potential constituents (customers). This is a key element in effective selling. Chad is sharing his thoughts and asking for feedback to make decisions in the best interests of the entire community. I disagreed with him on that topic as did many. It appears to me that he has since changed his position. Note, the lawsuit mentions nothing about Jack remaining a member of the board. However, Jack continues to play a key role in bringing on the hospital. So, I say kudos to Jack for continuing his work on this very hot topic. Meantime, I will say that I don’t like Jack for what he has done. It was cold and calibrated and hurt many people including you, me, and Chad. Make no mistake, no one likes the way things have gone down in this DRCD. If we all had a choice, none of this would ever have happened. Or, we would at least get the satisfaction of hanging the “puppet-master” by his toenails and let him feel just a little of the pain he has put in many. I respect your questions, and humbly ask you consider all that’s been written with an open mind. We must persevere. The addition of the hospital would be a fantastic relief. Let’s hope our engineers, attorneys and consultants are getting the job done to make one hell of an offer. Let’s be thankful we finally have a watch dog on the board and hope they communicate with him more openly going forward.
Well...I'm a bit torn on what to say here guys. There's so much I'd like to respond to on all posts - but I like the open debate.
BUT any further personal bashing and I'll have to start deleting posts. This is NOT the best thing for our district or for developing a community. I haven't seen anything that really bashes me personally or this site - but it could be a bit more clear. Please make sure that you are directing comments to a poster or to the site. If it is the site, I'll respond. Other posters are welcome to respond to the comments - so long as it stays on topic and relevant to the issues.
Bottom line is that whether or not you like the vote out come, whether or not you agree with the EBT or not, we all work together to the common goal of making this a community that we all want to live in. A community that OTHER people want to live in. Remember that there is a another development going in. We want people to buy there to experience the fun times of a great community. We want more developers to build and tap in to our conservancy district.
With a fragmented approach we are all sunk. We need to work together to get this done!
One response to CP....You have now met someone else who has done as much homework as Chad.....
Keep it clean, but keep it coming!
Thanks,
DickieH
Thank you Dickie for attempting to clean up some of the garbage being put out there by CP, GT, and SO. As for Chad, I must agree, he has put alot of countless hours trying to uncover the mystery of this situation in whole. As for Rob, I do remember him coming to my door. Nice man yes, and gave me some flyers as well. He even offered to have freeholders bring the ballots to his door and he would deliver them to the election so to ensure that everyone's voice was heard. Regardless of who won the election, the focus is simple, we must present a united front in order to prevail!
In moving forward I do see a valid point, how can one man act as a filter for information on both sides of the argument? How can we be accountable for fess the developer should have recooped when the lots which costs an average of $50,000 we bought? Seems like we paid for the lots, or at least our developers did in some cases, and now we have to pay again?
Instead of arguing like children, how about the 3 wise men (CP, GT, SO) come up with a solution.....
This is beginning to fancy a bathroom stall graffity with all of the garbage being painted by CP, GT, and SO!
Where is the truth? There are some very good questions being brought forward and the answers appear to be skated around with fancy words and accusations.
Let's look at working together instead of "sticking up for" our pals here! The gang would presummingly be those who have investments outside of the DRCD which could be viewed as "conflicts of interests".
For example, an elected offical is open to public scruteny no matter what the arena. So if a board member independently elected to toss his/her name into the running for his/her claim to fame in the spotlight, then he/she ought to learn to hang with the big dogs and the groupies need not be so defensive.
After all,freedom of speech right now is free in the DRCD isn't it? Might be added to next's years tax bill but for now I will continue.
I would like to ask why the hired lawyer many of us paid dues to was chosen? Was this presented to the freeholders as a prospective legal representation or did we play eannie meannie mineie moe down the list in the phone book? How did Dave get the job? Perhaps you could answer that for us CP since you are the spokes person here. I am sure it has nothing to do with a board member's wife getting paid to baby sit your children correct? (independently elected spokes person that is)
It is very interesting to me and confusing as well, that Dave was once the DRCD lawyer. That in itself would seem like a conflict of interest and Dave should have turned down the opportunity to represent us. This is factual and can be found with a simple google search.
And it is further perplexing to me that Dave recieved his portion of doing a whole lot of nothing...and we are still in the same boat we were in when the whole "hire the lawyer " campain began!Some of us would even venture to think that it was all part of the "help me get elected" campain. Which thank you CP for letting us know we will be getting a refund. I must have missed that email, door to door visit, or public announcement from Chad letting me know this was going to happen.
GT, you seem like you have some good points here. Ever consider working with the board or running yourself? As Dickie pointed out, you too seem like you have done your homework. Perhaps you and Chad could work together to represent us if indeed you are in the district and the board does get expanded.
References were made to the "gang" due largely because of the convienece and eye raising scenarios we have been inforrmed of here as of late.
Some of those I have been made aware of by a few free holders would be the as follows;
How did the fellow get chosen to count the votes at the election? It is common knowledge, well at least in face book world, where he( the vote counter) can be seen pictured at a board members house during their halloween party.
A current board member was once Jack's friend. Parties together, lawn care services being paid to him by Jack, Jack was his builder, even the kind of relationship where you would send announcement of your new born child to.
The gang is the first and often the only indivduals to get up to date information and unfiltered knowledge of what is going on. What the majority of us get is filtered down garbage mostly able to be found through on line searches which appear to be proivided to us to pacify us rather than to educate us.
What I would like to see is what exactly is our current fees going to? Funny how during Chad's first minutes on the board he was presented with a huge $400,000 expense to just "sign off" on. Thankfully Chad displayed enough sense not to do so.
Anyone know where we can locate the latest up to date expenditures of the board? I particularly am interested in the month to month costs rather than the annual budget that is put out there on line.
Again, lets work put aside all of the dramatics of representing the "best man" and get onto discovering why we are paying the burden of these fees?
I would just like say that there is not a single question within these comments that I would be unable or unwilling to answer. In all of my correspondences with other freeholders I am sure to let people know that I am willing to answer any and all questions that I can. Please see my contact information below and feel free to contact me if you have questions which I may be able to answer.
Chad Littlewood
224 Golden Eagle Drive
773-230-0769
Chad7480@msn.com
Chad,
When are we having the next DRCD funded bags tourney and keg party?
Rob
Call me on the secret DRCD line and we'll work out the details and our cut!!!!
No one will know.
How childish are these comments?
Ummm Chad, looks like we rather use this forum so all of the freeholders have a chance to view the question and answers. I wonder why you would much rather "welcome" a private question and answer session as opposed to this one. Please be more creative than simply saying how foolish this banter is. CP has pointed this out for you numerous times. How about some real answers to questions we can"t find out through self investigating.
Public positions get this type of reaction no matter who it is on the board.....as CP stated earlier, Chad happens to have done s much for us so he naturally will be the one looked to for answers and often with disappointment....take it or leave it!
Childish like accusing someone of voter fraud because he attended a person's Halloween party?
If you were at the meeting/vote on time, you would know that it was only after an uncomfortable silence, and discussion with the boss, that I volunteered to count.
Even if I could have stacked the box with votes, it was clear that Chad was the ovewhelming winner.
Even the messiah didn' win his presidential election by that much of a majority.
And just FYI, I responded quite harshly to Chad about his 'duped' email including calling him Obama part two.
The fact that Chad hasn't resigned after that insult shows his integrity!!!!
You naysayers are full of sht. I didn't see anyone else stepping up to the plate to try make this bad situation any better.
While I'll reserve my comments about Rob W., he is my neighbor too. So if he had been elected would you be complaining be cause he loaned me his air compressor?
Seriously.
RM
And by the way, did everyone notice that Erin had our Easter decorations out before Connie?
Well maybe I went a little overboard with my comments but I do stand by them.
I care about this area and its beautiful.
I am going to attempt,again,to give intelligent suggestions that should fix the problem we seem to be having and is causing some of us to vent on this blog site.
1. Create an excel spread sheet. Plug in the expenses. Update it each month.Then attach it to an email and send it out to the freeholders.
(computers have made this simple even a kid can do it right RM?)
2. Schedule a 7pm meeting every month or every 2 months at the Valpo location that the DRCD uses. Its free and will bring the community together.
Thank you Chad for initiating the process and thank all of us who donated for giving the operating funds.(for those who couldn't afford to or didn't believe in the cause I thank you neighbor just the same). But sorry I don't believe one person should be in control.
Until we have open dialog in a forum setting I will continue to believe someone is hiding something or are afraid of other, better ideas reaching freeholders from other people.The process Chad has now he shots down ideas he feels are wrong and then can claim the good ideas and pass them along.
(wow that rhymes)
I began to think that way when the explosive "we got duped" email hit the wire. Then the change from the immediate application of the assessment to the developers changed to a not so fast plan because of the hospital and until the other larger subdivision's lots get plated. This is after the email surfaced entertaining appointing Jack the villain back to the board in Jennifer's
position.
I hope I am wrong but I don't see the hospital looking to pay. Its doesn't make good business since.The letter campaign is O K, Chad, but I say someone will need to sit down and comeup with some very creative incentives to win them over.If this could be accomlished it would be a huge publicity coup. If not we will probably lose the Liberty School also. Again I hope I'm wrong.
I say apply the fee to the 56 lots now because Jack won't do anything with 230(I think that numbers right) until he is sure the judge won't rule in our favor.If the judge does rule in our favor he will just work the lots plated now.But according to the new plan he will get a break because now we are not going to pursue it? Or at best wait?
These debates are better in a forum. If I call you, you'll disagree and it will die there. In a forum other people would be exposed to the idea a may like it. This is why I believe CP,Chad and others oppose an open forum because of the threat to there status quo.
So read this over and email your responce to the contributors database and I should see it.
Hey RM this has some thought to it and is more then one line so you may need to get someone to read it to you.
Crazy. Looks like all of these people with so much time on their hands should begin to put their thinking caps on...provided they have them.
I could care less who intiated this process, who baby sits whose kids, saving comments about neighbors, who loans who air compressors, and when the heck holiday decorations are placed out...(BTW, take down any Christmas decorations if you still have them up...Connie and Erin have a head up on us)
Just fix the problems we have! All of this nonsense about who said what and why someone does something...especially all of these conspiracy theories....(psst, anyone tell the FBI agents and Cops in the DRCD?....perhaps they would like a heads up into these leads)
Seriously, stop looking for Hoffa in the Eagle Ridge ponds and let's get back to business.
Oh, so close to an apology and lucid, constructive dialogue.
All that in two hours on the road with my 'limited' education.
I was at least close.
Its past your bed time Rob(I mean RM).
Again, an attempt to get contructive diolog is met by a childs comments.
Don't remark on the substance RM,
that would be to difficult,
just act like an airhead (Sarah Palin). Hey write them on your hand so you can remember.Ya know things like breath go to the bathroom...etc.
My goal when I started working on all of this DRCD stuff was to try to bring the community together with a common goal. That goal was to figure out as much information about DRCD as possible and try to make things better for everyone. It is a bit disheartening seeing what it has become based on some of the comments above.
With some hesitation, mainly due to the harsh comments and baseless accusations on here, I have decided this would be as good a place as any to host an open, town hall style meeting. I am sure that more people will be involved by doing it here than having to physically be somewhere. DickieH, I hope you don’t mind us doing this here, if it is a problem I would be more than happy to move it elsewhere.
I would like to lay out a couple ground rules prior to kicking this off though.
1. Please stay on topic.
2. No personal attacks, I am open to debate but let’s keep this professional and friendly.
3. Show yourself, put your name with your comments and questions so that I know who I and others are responding to. You all know who I am, and I would appreciate you showing me the same respect.
I think that’s about it. Again, if anyone would like to talk to me on a more personal level, please call me or stop by my house.
Chad Littlewood
224 Golden Eagle Drive
773-230-0769
Chad7480@msn.com
Ouch. There seems like alot of throwing eachother under the bus here.
Like some of the posts said, let's just work together at finding a solution to this problem that effects us.
Play yard bullying needs to stop here.
Thanks Chad for giving us this information. It is appreciated. Although it may seem petty, it is nice to see SOME of the viewpoints of other free holders.
Lets start at the begining. Why were we not made aware of these fees when we purchased our property, and why isn't there a cap on the fees. The developer should be paying on all his vacant lots. I thought when I paid $55K plus for my lot that sewer was included...it would be cheaper to have a porta john!
@anonymous - please refer back to rule #3 in my previous post. Thanks, Chad
OK-enough. We were all lied to about the taxes when we bought our property. We now have eyes and ears on the board. Soon we may have a majority. When the additional lots are platted we can move on the tax change. I never met any of the other candidates so I can't judge. Did you all actually vote? Looking at the numbers it seems most of the freeholders did not. Lets stand behind Chad and help him instead of throwing insults and accusations that he may be on the take. This is not Illinois politics - this should be Hoosiers working together. Grow up people!
Not afraid to sign this -
Mary Ruiz
My point exactly. If we were lied to then why are we stuck paying for this when it should have been part of the developement costs! Must be you people are ok with being lied to. This is the problem. We are paying for something we didn't buy into...don't you get it!
@Anonymous -
I would be happy to respond if you would kindly respect the rules of this meeting. (Rule #3 in particular) but "don't you get it!" is getting close to falling under rule #2 as well.
Chad
Chad, just provide a response to the above anonymous statement. No negative comments...I also want to see your response and will remain anonymous also.
I agree, what is your take Chad? I don't see Anonymous above breaking any rules.
If you can't play by the rules, then don't play the game. If you would prefer to remain anonymous in this forum, then feel free to email, call or stop by.
Thanks,
Chad
Yes we were lied to - can't change that. Nobody is lying to us now. This is about where we are going - not where we have been. Let me guess - "Anonymous" is actually Jack trying to stir up dissention?
More lots have been annexed and that will dilute the taxes somewhat this year. The hospital will most likely go with us because it makes financial sense. We are headed in the right direction - be part of the solution - don't try to start a lot of infighting.
So who is the coward hiding behind Anonymous????
What do you need us all to do next Chad / We need to move on.
YIKES! Chad, why do you have to control and set rules for us to play by? CENSORSHIP! Chad you can"t tell us what to say or how to say it. This is not your blog, unless of course you are Dickie. Perhaps you have created these other "freeholders" as well to make yourself look better. Get a life. Stop trying to control everyone and everything. Thanks for the help but no thanks for your game rules.
Not affraid to sign my name but really don't care to.
Without rules there is chaos which is what these comments were turning into. People wanted an open and honest forum in which to ask questions and I have now provided that. Not censorship at all, I am not stopping you from writing anything. I was not making rules for Dickies blog either. The rules were for people who truly wanted there questions answered, if you want me to answer follow the rules.... It's a simple concept. It's fine if you would prefer to hide behind the mask of anonymity but don't expect me to answer your questions that way. I am simply asking for the same courtesy which I am giving you.
Respectfully,
Chad
GT,
I assume you are educated enough to know the definition of a hypocrit?
My post were simply to open your eyes to the nonsense BS that was festering and hopefully allow people to have a constructive conversation about the best ways to solve our collective problem as Jen W. suggested.
Yours and others comments were more for your own self-serving ego boosting and complaining than to serve DRCD as a whole.
Rob
It's the end of round 20 and the scores are in.
Sick of the run around 1
Worried 2
RM/Rob 3
JM .5
Fed-up freeholder 2
GT 5
Anonymous 3
CP 3
SO @.5
Jen Wilson .5
Mary Ruiz 1
and oh yeah,
Chad o
Answer the questions. Like sick of the run around said, dude, you have some good theories and points, but you so can not tell people what to do. That is unless you want to pay my portion of the fees we have been gifted.
Suggestion- try another approach if you want to gain and hold onto trust. Simple minds tend to follow as they often can not find their way themselves. GT seems like they have comfronted you and RM and CP thankfully came to your rescue. But seriously, you are not the leader of the pack. Just some guy with alot of time to look stuff up and send some emails.
Mary seems to have a good theory. Maybe Jack intends to create disention within the DRCD to detour the focus from our mission.
I think we can all do without the drama. Maybe Rodney King can be a motivational speaker at one of those town hall style meetings you want to have Chad.
Rob,
Blah, Blah, Blah.....
Chad,
The name is not the important thing its just a tool you and your click will use later on that individual.
The important thing is the quality of the question asked. There have been a few so pick some and answer
them.
Mary, you seem as well informed as the rest of Chad's backers. Half the votes were thrown out because only one vote per house was allowed.We didn't find that out until the day of the election. I guess my wife can't have a mind of her own even though she pays half the fee.
Items 1 and 2 in GT'S blog are quality questions. Please answer and elaborate.
Respectfully,
SO,
No matter the venue, whether it be on the phone, in an email or in person I would not answer questions unless I knew with whom I was speaking. I am trying to understand what the big secret is and it is a bit baffling to me.
I normally would not put myself in the position of answering questions in a forum like this but I decided that since people wanted open and honest communication that this is as good a place as any to do so.
I am not saying I have all the answers but if I do have them, I would be more than willing to give answers which I can. Once questions come to my attention and the person asking them isn't hiding, I will answer them. This is something that I did not have to do but decided that in an effort to try to bring people together I would.
Chad
Well Chad what ever weak and lame excuse you want to use will do I guess.
The truth is you can't answer those questions because you can't deal with people that don't agree with you. I am in just disbelief as to the poor excuses you use to avoid any type of constructive options unless they are yours. I say you are scared to meet in a open forum group setting because people will see how weak you are in substance.
Mary Ruiz I heard that we weren't
going to go for the application of the fee against those lots now but hold off until the new board positions were approved and filled, and the hospital locked up so as not to scare it off.Long wait for relief. Please let me know where your info came from and post here please.
Also if you have anything new on the hospital please post here for all thank you.
PEOPLE WANT OPEN AND HONEST COMMUNICATION CHAD BUT NOT ALWAYS ON YOUR TERMS.
Your not our leader and we don't play by your rules,Chad,your just a member of the board.Heck we were the ones that started bloging here
and now you come along and want to be the king again and apply your rules.
I may have taken shots at people in responce to theirs but not one of you can say my questions and solutions were not doable and inclusive to all. I don't care who voted for who I just want everybody included in the information and have it face to face because only through the eye's can the liars be weeded out.
Chad,
What do you mean you would not normally put your yourself out here on a blog like this? I for one remember your " I am leading the group of the I hate Damon Run" on facebook.
I guess a public forum is much differant than this blog you can"t control.
Love the comments and the truth of it all GT. Don't be a victim again by this control freak wiggeling his way into everything but resolving nothing.
Wow...I'm going to start selling ad space for this blog......or subscription base....and no, Chad does not run this blog. nor Jack, nor a DRCD board member either.
Funny the question came up about the "vote counters" as I was one of them.
So riddle me this Batman...who is DickieH.......I'm sure 95% already know...but anyway.
I'm on the road right now with limited time and access to home computing. There will be a new blog on the way once I sort out the numerous and multiple comments with a DickieH response. Not sure how I'll format it, but also thinking I will start a new blog-o-sphere to move the DRCD stuff to it's own space. This was initially set up for national political issues rather than DRCD (see the open letter to Evan Bayh on this blog, as well as to Obama on the troop surge in Afghanistan). I'll have to think about it.
Until then, post early, post often - but keep it clean and remember that these are your neighbors. They will be there for you (hopefully) when your house is on fire or a tree falls on your car. I'd hope you will do the same for them.
Despite our differences, can't we all just get along.....
I love how the degrading comments continue. If you look back, I have not taken one jab at anybody in this forum and yet I continue to be on the receiving end of them. I refuse to stoop to that level.
I was one of the very few people who stepped up and tried to do something with this mess and yet this seems to be what I get in return.
I will be formulating a response to all questions in this forum. It should be out here at some point tomorrow. At that point, I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with anybody interested in talking to have what would hopefully be a much more respectful conversation.
Chad
We all have a common cause, we all need to solve the same problem, why are we treating eachother with such disrespect? We may not all agree with some of the solutions to the same major issue that is facing all of us where it hurts...the pocketbook, and that is probably why there is so much tension. Money is the root of all evil. Now for the sake of all the freeholders who have a lot at stake here, lets work together to find a solution! We bought just last year and only found out about this crazy assessment because Chad was nice enought to send us a letter...otherwise we may still not know about it and find out when we get our first tax bill with the assessment on it. We are still trying to put our minds around how this can happen and not be disclosed to us, but it did happen, and obviously it is legal? or we wouldn't be sitting here having this discussion. Let's band TOGETHER and make something happen instead of being on different teams and waiting for someone else to make it happen...Let's start throwing ideas out there instead of smashing down the ideas that are being put out there. Let's make the ideas better or more attainable. We are all educated people, we all have a good head on our shoulders or we wouldn't be living in the houses we do. I believe that there is an answer, so let's find it! Be blessed--
Lisa Gonzalez; Timberland
Well, Lisa, that was nice of Chad.
There are others out there doing the same.
The disrespect comes from the secrecy and lack of quality information distributed by Chad.
The inability to get him to have an open and constructive dialog in a group forum so others can meet and share ideas beyond "Chads" and his censored control. If you and Chad feel this is disrespect or personal attacks then??????
It is very important to set this up right in the beginning by being all inclusive and open then later after the click has taken root and total control.
Everybody has thanked Chad and recognized him for his contribution.
He needs to move on from that.
Lisa and Mary how do you feel about open meetings each month or two at about 7pm so all of us can get together and share each others views in person.This way the next election everyone will know who is contributing and mybe worth the next vacant board position. Nice huh? The way it is now Chad controlls info between freeholders withholds info from others because they did not volunteer or contribute to his position and donate. SOME COULDN'T AFFORD TO SHOULD THEY BE PUNISHED?
Those that did contribute have been asked to contribute more but have not received an accounting of how it has been spent.
So I ask you, ladies is the above too much to ask for?
This is why Chad keeps feeling sorry for hisself instead of looking at these suggestions
his big concern is whats your name? wow!
Need to get these meeting started before the next board election or his carefully gaurded database will be used to get the rest of his click elected. Is that fair no! CP will tell you he worked hard to get it. It wasn't that hard and besides isn't it about all of us! I say yes! CP and Chad say no just them and their control.
So how do you feel about the above suggestions ladies?
So we should pick a date, time, and location...someone needs to take initiative in doing this because there is no time that will work for everyone...
I agree. We will try to figure out something and post it here. Thanks lisa.
GT,
I am trying to figure out how I am keeping anything a secret. I have been open with any and all information I have. I have around 150 email addresses which that info goes to. Only about half of those are people who have donated to the legal fund. Anybody who has requested to be on that email list has been included. I even sent a letter out to everyone in the district and told them to let me know if they would like to be added to that list. So, who have I withheld information from?
I have never once asked people who donated to the legal fund to donate more. I would like to know where you got this tidbit of information from.
If it wasn't that hard to get peoples contact info then why haven't you done the same thing? I put my blood sweat and tears into these issues over the past year and a half.
The last thing I am going to do is feel sorry for myself. I have looked at these suggestions and as I mentioned in my previous post, I will be answering and addressing them. Patience is a virtue.
I have never once declined a public meeting. Please don't accuse me of something that is not true. Since I am not a leader GT, I will let you set up this meeting and I will be sure to be there. I have nothing to hide. Just give me a call to let me know the time and the place. We will see at that meeting if you have the courage to say the things you are saying here directly to my face. I doubt it.
Chad
Well, Chad I do believe I received an email showing how much funds we had left and that there was a need for additional monies. I will search through and find it.
Chad I figured, of all people you would be receptive to the setting up of the meeting.
If I do set the meeting up will you convey the info to your 150 email list?
Blood sweat and tears uh? Very dramatic.
Those emails which you are speaking of were not directed at any one person but to the entire list of emails.
If I were to set up the meeting then something like "Here we go, chad set up a meeting and it has to be on his terms...." would come out. I am done with the nonsense. If you set up the meeting, I will do one better. I will make sure that EVERYONE in the district gets notified.
Chad
Chad you already contradicted yourself in just 2 emails!
The first one you say "I have never asked people who donated to the legal fund to donate more."
Then you say:
"Those emails which you are speaking of were not directed at
any one person but to the entire list of email."
ENOUGH SAID.
Chad if you set up the meeting and had them regularly I would back you 100 percent and help you in any way!
That is all I am looking for!
What I was trying to say is that I was not looking for those who had already donated to donate more. Can we please drop the sarcasm?
I will set up the first meeting if you would like me to. I just need some input from people on what days and times would work best. Feel free to let me know in a post on here. Wednesdays are pretty much the only bad evening for me.
The goal here is to bring people together not tear them apart. I do think it is important to hear from everyone and address(if we can) their concerns.
Thanks,
Chad
Ok, enough of the passive aggressiveness. I for one happen to know aside from the BS that is circulating on this blog directly aimed at certain individuals, there is also a cleaver and decetful bunch of garbage being put out there.
No one person is a victim here so Chad and RM/Rob, no more crying over your beers, GT, get off the bus you seem to be throwing Chad under, SO, get a clue, sick, no need to be nasty, worried, as Dickie said stop the bitching.....
We are all victims here. The rest is just some public personality conflicts. Who cares?
Chad, I do have to ask, being that it has been said numerous times, you have done ALOT of researching and have spent alot of time working on this issue for all of us in the DRCD. Hats off my friend. But with that being sad, why does it take days to create an answer to these questions when you seemingly have many of the answers already?
Because I have not even started putting the answers together. There are a lot of questions in this blog and it will take some time to put together. I am at work now.....and not working from home. I said I would have something out here at some point today and I will.
I agree Chad.Time is the only issue with me unless Saturday works otherwise 7pm?
Having never read a blog before, I guess it must be a lot like watching "The View." Wow.
I do hope that any dates/times for meetings, open forums, etc. can be posted on the blog. We'll decipher through all the other stuff to find the information and do our best to show up since it is ALL of our hard earned money at stake. Many thanks to all who are working in everyone's best interest, whoever that may be.
Thanks for the entertainment in the meantime.
Kris Borsodi
Timberland
(Don't know Jack (ha!), Chad, Dickie, SO, GT, Rob, Erin or any other person listed in the above blog. Just want information about being blindsided with the DRCD and what we might do going forward. Would hate to think it would have been cheaper to live in Illinois.)
Wow, I just read thru all of this. I have the same question as someone above, 1. How does this happen? 2. What is the max they can take from us? I would sell my house and get out of here if I could, however who would purchase a house in these developments with this sewer issue. I have noticed the only homes selling are Jacks. The most recent Nardo homes that have been built or sold are basically taking the value of other existing homes down as the homes he builds are that upscale. I would like somebody to help me with this, and I am sure it would help others. I appreciate all you help Chad. I hope we can all come together and get this worked out so our monthly sewer fee is much less....might be too late, however I believe a developer should pay for the site improvements as part of his development cost.
Thank you Evan. How does this happen and how is this legal?
Chad, what does Dave say about this?
Fed-up, thanks for the info about Dave.
Everyone, it does seem fishy that this lawyer once respresented the very client he is/was (we no longer have one?)fighting against. Does this seem legal?
Chad, what exactly did we hire Dave for?
GT, like your enthusiaum, tone it down a bit. People may listen to you more if you weren't so argumentative. You do have some good points and raise some very good points.
Rob, Dickie, whatever you want to be called. Thanks for the blog. I love that are voices are being heard. Keep it up!
Chad, why will it take you "some time to put together the answers"? Haven't you spent " a year and a half " pouring over countless sources of information even sacrificing your "blood sweat and tears" for the common good of all DRCD!
And if you have a shared "all the information" you have, then tell us,
What happened between you and Jack? Why no more social gatherings together?
Was he paying you to perform a service for him at any point in recent times?
Were you working for anyone who was getting paid from Jack? Was that person getting paid from Jack as a developer/builder and/or also as a provider of lawn care services? A business you once owned. Which raises questions of running a business from your home...clearly a violation in the covnences.
Why did you send out information to the email list of freeholders discrediting Jack only to later praise the very efforts you were discrediting intially?
Why is it you had a list of emails and requested people contact you but you only provided "filtered" and "censored" information to the list?
Why do you feel it ok to come onto this blog and set rules for people to follow? I do agree people are using this as a source to vent their frustrations and their is obviously a lot of them, but as it has been indicated, your position puts you in this perdicament. You are open to judgement and we are allowed to speak out voice.
FYI, we do not have to call you, use a town hall meeting to address you, or have a face to face show down in the street to get our points across.
We are not cowards if we choose to conceal our identity. Nor are we affraid to say who we are. We are simply exercising one of our freedoms and will continue to do so. Right or wrong, educated or not, silly or petty, substantiated or not, our thoughts are our thoughts and you can not choose, direct, or alter them.
Dickie and you have done an excellent job of doing your homework. One thing I must illustrate is that we all are not afforded the luxury of time. Time to create responses, time to do our homework, or time to get with eachother and create a damm good answer for some of these questions.
This is a reality for many people in this situation. We are working more than one job or putting in extra hours to keep up with our raised mortgages because of these fees.
Wjile I applaud the time you two have had to do the homework for us, please do not condeme us for not having the time to do so.
The best charity or gifts are those we often have no idea where they come from. I am reading a whole lot of "look what I did, now pat me on the back damm it".
Stand behind what you have said and continue to do good things, just don't ask for a medal for it.
Wow, just when I thought things were getting better in here....
@Sick - It took some time because like you, I also have other things to do besides sit here and respond to this blog. I have never been at a social gathering with Jack... nor would I. I thought we were done with the baseless accusations but I guess we are right back to square 1.
Are we really going to stoop to talking about running a business out of my house? I guess you should call the HOA police, I am sure they will take care of it!
I have not condemned anyone, not once. Again, baseless accusations.
Not sure where I was looking for a pat on the back either but whatever.
@livin - Thanks for at least trying to calm things down in here.
All I ask is for just a bit of mutual respect. You know, I respect you and possibly you do the same for me.
Now if we are done with all the nonsense, maybe I can post my answers..... Are we?
Chad
"Rob, Dickie, whatever you want to be called. Thanks for the blog. I love that are voices are being heard. Keep it up!"
Since my name is not Rob - nor do I live in Eagle Ridge - DickieH would be just fine.
You now who you are....
I am impressed with your ability to reframe from "condmning anyone" or bluntly requesting a "pat on the back". But let's be real. those of us who know you and have had our fill of you know the sort of individual you are.
Contradicting, demeaning, and plain sneaky. You do nothing for free and are always searching for the next person to screw over. Pick and avenue, lawn care services or friendships. Either way most people who know you rarly speak highly of you. I am sure some really cool bloggers might say differently but frankly, I don't care!
Riddle me this batman....how doeas a boy living in Wisconsin come to this random place where he has no friends and then hooks up with Jack to be the first home built in the subdivision? A relationship that later transitions into a friendship and possibly then a business partnership.
Folks, this man has scammed us for a long time. Baseless as it may seem, at least here in this forum and in those highly censored emails, it is organized coruption at it's best.
What next? Making us drink the koolaid, live on the compound, donate for a lawyer to do nothing?
Thanks but no thanks. Keep you plans for control in your happy little circle of followers because I for one am not traveling behind you into the pits of hell!
I have stayed out of this until someone decided to start posting using my name, which they spelled wrong! We need to get over how we got here and figure out how we are going to work together from here on out. Stop accusing each other and direct our anger at the cause of this problem! We are all in the same boat! I have already told Chad that I do not agree with a few of the decisions he has made on his own.
We need to stop worrying about Jack's future developments. All we are doing is helping him make more money off of us! We need to get as many "freeholders" as quickly as possible. The longer we let them wait, the more we get stuck paying and the more they will benefit.
Below are some questions I have:
1.Why is Jack extending himself so much with empty developments like St. Andrews and Timberland Farms? In the original agreement to form the conservancy was he required to have a certain number of freeholders by a certain date? The longer we wait the more likely he will just fold up shop like the Falling Waters contractor. The less lots he has, the more likely he will start developing at much quicker pace if we have an equal tax across the board.
2.We have quite a few developments already existing along route 6 and Meridian. Those developments are currently on septic systems, which have a life expectancy. It is my understanding that Porter County will not issue permits to replace those systems and force those owners to attach to our system. For example the poor guy along 200W that is having to attach on his dime. What is distance away from our system of homes that will be forced to attach in the future? Those are your future developments, not Jack's! What can we do to entice those people to attach sooner than later?
3. The fire protection system has to have a charge to those benefiting from it. Everyone along route 6 and Meridian should be taxed for this. Their homeowners insurance should be lowered because the water for fire protection does not need to be trucked in.
4. What do people think about an increased tap fee that is imposed on standing empty lots? If ANY individual lot remains empty beyond one year, it will be required to pay the average fees paid to date by freeholders. In other words, developers only get their lower tax rate for one year then they are freeholders like the rest of us. So you have to build now and can not afford to sit on your properties, waiting on the neighboring properties to increase the value of your lot and build much smaller less expensive homes on them as is currently being done.
OK that is it! I know I will have to explain my ideas further, but I would like to discuss them constructively in an open forum and will not be commenting further on this site. So please formulate some ideas on how we can creatively get more freeholders as fast as possible!
Thanks!
EVAN
OK Gang. I've asked all of you to stay on topic and stop with the personal attacks. For those of you who know who I actually am - and no, it's not Rob - are fully aware of my stances on the tax issue. Remember that this is where this Blog started and now has morphed into it's own life.
I'm at the point that I will start deleting posts. I have no choice. While I don't want to be the next accused of "censorship" or whatever you want to call it - I can't stand for character defamation with no suggestions on a course of direction. Chad has posted that he will have responses here - yet that still doesn't seem to be good enough. Others post that nothing is done at this time or that time, or something else because why?
They have to work, they are busy, they are this, they are that. I'm pretty sure he works too. And if you've ever worked from home - you would know it's not always a picnic and that you are almost ALWAYS at the office. It has it's blessings as well as it's curses. Trust me.
Once again, keep it clean and on the topic. You've again been advised of the rules. So I don't want to hear about it if your post is deleted. On this forum - I'm the judge, jury, and executioner. No exceptions.
Thanks,
DickieH
I apologize, but I needed to split my answers into 3 posts due to the length.
@astonished - I have never had to reframe anything except some old pictures possibly. But I digress...
I promised it and here it is with 68 minutes to spare:
This may be a bit sloppy so bear with me. There were a lot of questions asked and I am going to do my best to step through them. I copied the questions directly from previous posts so don’t fault me on the grammar except for in my responses.
@Fed-Up
Q - And why is it that those people who could not afford to donate were omitted from the discussions or left out of the loop?
A - I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Every attempt was made to keep as many people up to date as possible. I never have nor would I intentionally leave anyone “out of the loop”. I brought it up in a previous post that a letter was sent out to ALL freeholders and that letter invited everyone to give me their email address to add to my list. I also asked people to pass my emails along to their neighbors on multiple occasions.
@SO
Q - Lets see Chad sure did his homework on number of homes under plat!? How did the lawyer miss it?
A – This was my fault and if you got the email after the infamous “Duped” email you would know that I acknowledged that and apologized. Dave got the information from me as far as number of lots. I got that information from the district’s website and I should have done more research. I made a mistake.
Q - Where do you draw the line on information for freeholders in the lawsuit and those not and who dose it?
A – When was this line drawn? Sorry to answer with a question but I would like to understand where you are coming from.
While I find the questions below regarding my lawn business completely irrelevant, I am going to answer them anyway.
Q - Who did Chad sell his lawncare business to?
A – A friend of mine
Q - Did Chad do business with the conservancy, Jack Barko and the(2)subdivisions within at any time?
A – I did NO business with the conservancy but I did cut grass for Jack Barko including both Timberland and Eagle Ridge in both 2007 and part of 2008.
Q - Does the person he sold the business to do the work for the Conservancy and Jack Barko?
A – Yes
Q - Isn't he the same guy that frames, or did, homes for Jack Barko?
A – Yes
Q - Making money isn't that what its all about CP?
A – In business, that is usually what it’s about…. Lord knows I didn’t do it because I loved cutting grass!
Q - So how does someone get their money back if they don't view these new revelations as you do?
A – Contact me directly at 773-230-0769.
@Anonymous
Q - Do we even know how the donations are being spent?
A – Yes, and I have and will share this information with anyone who has donated to the legal fund. I may get some grief for saying that but it is more private than public information.
Q - Is the lawyer being paid?
A – Not yet, but he will be shortly. As soon as I get his bill, everyone who donated will get a breakdown of the budget.
Q - Is Chad being paid?
A – Absolutely not.
C - I think meetings need to be scheduled so as to get everybodys imput and make sure when someone says the majority that its a fact.
A – We are working on this. Please see the previous posts where this is talked about.
C - Other people need and want to get involved first hand but can't because of the tight control on information releases
A – Again, I disagree that there is any tight control of information. Any information I get, I pass along to anyone who has wanted to be included in the correspondences.
C - How about a detailed account of how the money has been spent.I have donated and to date have not received anything except a request to get signatures and donate more money?
A – A detailed budget and expenses along with a pro-rata refund of unused money will be available within the next couple weeks.
@GT
Q - Again I ask the same questions where does the money go and how is it spent? Why have we not received an account of how its been spent.
A – Please see my previous response to anonymous
C - Hell we can't even get the meetings schedule at a working mans time.
A – A few people including myself have brought this up at meetings. The last few have all been in the evening and it will continue to be in the evening.
C- I demand that all freeholders be given information they are entittled to weather they are in the lawsuit or not
A – Again, hate to answer with a question but what information are you looking for?
C - "some builder lots added would be better then none"
A – I disagree with that statement. I feel that not moving to the exceptional benefits tax structure is in the best interest of any freeholder planning on living here long term. It is not just Jack, but the developer of St. Andrews also owns A BUNCH of other land in the Timberland/St. Andrews vicinity. I hate to say it, but we need these guys to build in order for our tax situation to get any better in the future. If we move forward with the tax change, I do not see much building happening in the near future and this may affect decisions made by the Hospital as well as future developments.
Q - how can one man act as a filter for information on both sides of the argument?
A – I am trying to figure out which two sides of which argument I am on. As a freeholder and as a board member my goal is the same, to look out for the best interest of the district as well as the freeholders within the district.
Q - How can we be accountable for fess the developer should have recooped when the lots which costs an average of $50,000 we bought?
A – Jack found a way which was good for his business to provide water and sewer to our subdivisions. If you feel you were wronged (and most of us do) then by all means take the necessary legal action to try to remedy it. I’ve personally researched this and found no one who will represent me “pro-bono” and simply cannot afford the costs involved.
C - So if a board member independently elected to toss his/her name into the running for his/her claim to fame in the spotlight, then he/she ought to learn to hang with the big dogs and the groupies need not be so defensive.
A – I am here and for the most part I feel that I have remained fairly calm and collective. Trust me…. Fame has absolutely nothing to do with this!
Q - I would like to ask why the hired lawyer many of us paid dues to was chosen?
A – No other lawyer that I came across while doing “eany meany miny mo” through the phone book had the experience or knowledge dealing with conservancy districts which Dave possessed. I did give people an opportunity to voice an opinion and nobody spoke up against him.
C - It is very interesting to me and confusing as well, that Dave was once the DRCD lawyer. That in itself would seem like a conflict of interest and Dave should have turned down the opportunity to represent us.
A – This was actually another big reason that we chose Dave in the first place. I won’t go into further details about this on the blog but if you would like more details, please call me – 773-230-0769
C - And it is further perplexing to me that Dave recieved his portion of doing a whole lot of nothing...and we are still in the same boat we were in when the whole "hire the lawyer " campain began!Some of us would even venture to think that it was all part of the "help me get elected" campain.
A – Dave has done a whole lot more than nothing and his fees are quite reasonable. Hopefully very soon the board will be expanded to 5 and the freeholders will have control. This seems like a bit more than nothing to me.
Q - How did the fellow get chosen to count the votes at the election? It is common knowledge, well at least in face book world, where he( the vote counter) can be seen pictured at a board members house during their halloween party.
A – This was answered by Rob, I mean RM in a previous post.
C - A current board member was once Jack's friend.
A – This is not true.
Q - Anyone know where we can locate the latest up to date expenditures of the board?
A – I am trying to get more of a breakdown of all this myself. It is public information so any of you should be able to request it as well.
C - Create an excel spread sheet. Plug in the expenses. Update it each month.Then attach it to an email and send it out to the freeholders.
A – Another question, are you talking about the monthly Conservancy District expenses here? If that is the case, I could propose this at the next board meeting.
C - The process Chad has now he shots down ideas he feels are wrong and then can claim the good ideas and pass them along.
A – What have I shot down? What ideas have I claimed? I always give credit where credit is due.
C - This is why I believe CP,Chad and others oppose an open forum because of the threat to there status quo.
A – This is not high school.
@Anonymous
C - But seriously, you are not the leader of the pack. Just some guy with alot of time to look stuff up and send some emails.
A – Yep, but I chose to spend my time trying to make things better with this whole mess.
C - Half the votes were thrown out because only one vote per house was allowed.We didn't find that out until the day of the election.
A – Go ahead and run the numbers any way you want given the final vote count. That made absolutely no difference at all. I had no control over how the board chose to run the election.
I hope this helped. I am sure that further questions will arise and I assure you that I will stick around to answer anything that I can as long as the degrading comments and baseless accusations cease. We are all adults here and I am sure we can show each other a bit of respect.
Chad
Its not me Chad. I said I agree and was content with the plan.
These meetings will be important for several reasons:
1.face to face communication
2.quality of information
3.quality of discussion
4.open forum community getting together.
PLEASE, EVERYBODY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS!
@GT - What's not you?
I agree with your points.
Chad
Your right. I was talking about all the other stuff that showed up after.
We're cool.
@E. Spirrison
Evan, I agree...it is a bit sad and pathetic that people would come in here and try to pose as someone they aren't.
I appreciate the fact that you are bringing constructive ideas to the table. I am thinking about your ideas and I will contact you to discuss since you will not be posting anything further. We can also talk about this once a meeting gets set up.
Thanks,
Chad
@astonished:
"Riddle me this batman....how doeas a boy living in Wisconsin"
Wisconsin, who was living in Wisconsin? Don't accuse me of coming from Wisconsin when I didn't!! :-)
Where did you live prior to coming here? That is of course all of the pplaces after your home state and before you ended up in the DRCD? Let's be real!Where did you obtain your computer certification from? Really, it is not about what you do with your extra curricular activities, it is demonstrating to the masses that you are not who you present yourself to be.....sorry Dickie but I am answering his question.....no defamation or slander intended. I want people to be informed that there is more than meets the eye here. Character says a lot about a person. But truly living as the character one really is means more than words can say.
sorry, did not mean to sign in the above comment as anonymous...I clicked send before I typed in my name...
moving forward, I think it is a safe bet to say many of us have voiced our opinions and thoughts. Some liked and supported and some not. Proud to be in a country where I can have such freedoms! Thank you Dickie!
Chad, it has appeared that you have taken more than you fair share of beatings on this blog. Maybe there is some validity to some of this, maybe there is not. Who will ever know why so many people are so angry with you.
Judge and jury are out on that topic...
Let's move onto greener pastures and I say let's discuss the real Evan's suggestions.
Although he may not visit this blog any more, many of us plan on doing so.
What is your opinion of the next move here?
Thanks Jen - astonished and humored is much better than anonymous :-)
I don't really think that where I moved here from has any relevance to this conversation but it was not Wisconsin. Guess you do not know me nearly as well as you think you do. I think that I have represented myself quite well, but that is for others to judge.
If you have a problem with me on a personal level, which obviously you do, then take it up with me personally (I'm only 3 houses away, come on over and lets talk about it). I have spoken with a whole lot of people and none of them seem to be angry with me except for you and your other personalities on here.
I am glad we can finally move on. Hopefully we can get some more constructive ideas flowing. Evan has some good ideas and I will respond to them when I have more time. I spoke to him about them personally today.
Thanks,
Chad
Looks like you don"t know me very well either Chad. Jen? (the board member no one talks about?) Try again, I'll give you a few more guesses.
Would appear to me that there are alot of people pretending to be someone they are not. As for multiple personalities, again, not me.
As we have established throughout this fine display of semi organized chaois, there would appear to be several incodents of false identification. Even some wrongly attempted guesses at identities. You for one have invited us to share with you who we are and some of us have done so while others choose to remain anonymous. I guess it means a great deal to you to know who it is that has differant views than you. I am sure this Jen will not be happy that you have "accused" her and her other personalities of not holding you in highest regards.
Let truth prevail.
Unless Jen the board member lives 3 doors down, that's not who I am talking about..... Like I said, let's move on.
Nicely put Chad. True colors showing? Thought you never talk about anyone? I have no clue who lives three doors down from you but I am sure they won't be moving on happily if they have read this.
I am happy to move on. Looks like you have found someone to direct attention to now anyways.
Are you planning on sharing the real Evan's ideas?
Uh genius, Evan posted some of them in his post.
Funny story about those who thought I was Dickie.
When Erin ordered all the stuff for our wedding, half the invitations, the champagne glasses and the cake knife all came back saying Erin and Richard. My previous work place got a hold of this, and forever more I was nicknamed Dickie.
Thought I would try to lighten the mood. :)
Rob
I will start this off by saying that this will be my final post in this forum.
It is apparent that a select few, maybe less than a few, have a common goal in these comments. It would take a lot more than the nonsense going on in here to break me. I am astonished and humored by the lack of respect in here.... I really thought we were all adults.
There were questions asked and I have answered them. I have been respectful but it has not been reciprocated (for the most part). We are all sick of the run around, if you think you have it bad you should see what I am dealing with as a board member.
There are a bunch of fed up freeholders within the district and I would hope that if you are that fed up that you would try to do something about it yourself.
I understand that some people would prefer to remain anonymous and that is fine. SO, if someone reading any of this has any questions or concerns, please contact me directly.
Chad Littlewood
773-230-0769
chad7480@msn.com
224 Golden Eagle Drive
I strongly suggest you leave my wife out of your future blogs.
You've mocked my wife since we moved in and again I strongly suggest you leave her out of any future blogs.
Someone told me about this site and that her name mentioned and I don't want it to continue.
RM said...
And by the way, did everyone notice that Erin had our Easter decorations out before Connie?
March 15, 2010 8:17 PM
I don't respond well to threats, so I'll say i'm sorry.
To all who are reading, please disregard my earlier post and substitue with "did everyone notice that Erin had our Easter decorations out before any of our neighbors"
hope that makes you feel better.
Rob
It does thankyou. I don't use your wife in my conversations so please don't use mine.
Thank you again.
Hi, just so there's no confusion... "SO" is not Steve Overton.
Have a great day all.
SteveO
Reading all these blogs was better then watching March madness considering my team did not have any competition.
Some questions were good and I liked
and
some people just need help.
Being a Vietnam Navy Veteran I respect all and agree we could use a community get together to alleviate some peoples fears.I believe through such a venue people can meet, talk and find common ground while growing stronger as a community.
Chad and I spoke on the change in in fee assesment and I at first did not like it but after he explained to me a little more about the added developer lots I changed my mind and donated. We also talked about the change in plan due to the new information found out prior to the election. I then and now do not like the plan.I still say apply to the existing lots like previously agreed too.
The only thing to change was the number of lots all the other reasons existed before but now seem what????
I have several important issue I would like to bring up at the meeting I see Chad is planning. Especially a letter concerning,in part, the future annexation by Chesterton and acknowledged by the current lawyer representing the assessment/board expansion lawsuit.
Myself and Robert Wilson are working on another legal angle.
We believe we can prove colusion between the developer, real-estate companies and builders to initially conceal the fee or put it in the conversation in a after thought way so as not to lose the sale and the opportunity to build up the area. So far so good on the strategy.(at one meeting the lawyer said it would be hard to prove fraud but didn't suggest or when asked expand on the thought).
See, other people are putting forth time and effort but the majority don't know this because the email list belongs to one person. (I understand Chad you went and got it)No offence Dickie, I don't give a s... about the impact I am a truth man.Just business.
I also believe all business opportunities should go for bid people in the conservancy paying the fee before those outside are considered. Some of us could pool together for equipment to perform the maintanace services to make extra money. It would be great for some of the older kids belonging to families in the conservancy to work the equipment to make summer money for the things they need or want.
Concerning subdivision fee's such as the 200.00 per year for Eeagle Ridge and what ever Timberland pays could be dropped and the maintance fee added to the raised operating revenue in the higher sewer and water charge. This considering, to date, we have not had a quality subdivision meeting in 3 years.(nice Idea immediate relief.) Why pay twice?
Just in case not eveybody is aware the park in Eagle Ridge is inclusive to the Sub Division. There are liabilty issues that concern outsider use of the park.I
don't know about you but I don't need anymore bills.
Questions Dickie.
Q- If after 26 years pass and the assessment fee is paid off and the next day a new home is sold is that familly free of the assessment? What benefit monetary gain do we receive? What monetary benefit do the developers get?
I guess my point is does the money end up being packaged into the home and lot price for the business's and nothing for the home owners who retired the debt?
Should I sell and come back is 26 years?
Last I believe this meeting and hopely more regularly scheduled will allow some people to meet others, they normally would not have, because their views of them have been tainted by others for no real reason and have assumed them to be correct. I know for one me and my wife have had ours.I am sure if we meet at the meeting you will have a different view.
Thank you
Thomas a Graziosi
226 Golden Eagle Drive
graziosi.thomas@gmail.com
312.907.4313
Sorry "SO". Not ment to steal your name. Just using it for the word.
All the other above "SO" blogs other then the one claiming the initials will now belong to "SOS" more appropriate for our situation."SOL" could be also. Nah, I will take "SOS" because its asking for help where as "SOL" is basically history.
Look to this site for corrected information that is being sent out from the clicks spin room.
I am looking through the responses from Chad and will post the discrepancy in case he reneges on the meeting or doesn't post it on this site for all.
If the meeting(s) happen I too will drop from site. There will no longer be a need to air grievances' in blog form on this site.
Hey RM
RM said...
"And by the way, did everyone notice that Erin had our Easter decorations out before Connie?"
I think it was due to her mourning the passing of her father.
You're class man, but without the "cl".
Tom,
Thank you for posting intelligently and providing some thoughtful insight!
First, may I start off by thanking you for your service in our Military. As a father of a future United State Marine, thank you for your service.
"The only thing to change was the number of lots all the other reasons existed before but now seem what????"
I think we've hit on this one, however by changing the tax structure over each lot that has recieve FINAL plat approval will be taxed. By changing the tax - Timberland Farms south would likely not be developed. By adding 56 Lots, your total tax relief on Golden Eagle would be $60 per year and this would be an all but certain fixed rate for the next 26 years. My taxes would actually increase as would 94 other properties in the district. It could also be true that this will go UP as when the BAN's are retired with Muni-Bonds there will be principal to pay. We won't know the actual numbers until the bonds are issued - and it will depend on the rates. Sacrificing $60 today to save hundreds later seems short sighted to me.
"Especially a letter concerning,in part, the future annexation..."
Remember that Chesterton's Tax rate is significantly higher than Liberty Township - 2.183% in Jackson Township and 2.259% in Westchester township.
"We believe we can prove colusion between the developer, real-estate companies and builders to..."
This is a pretty slippery slope. As I mentioned way back in July of last year when this was brought up initially - you have signed stating that you were aware you were in a conservancy district. It is in the covenants. I agree that it didn't spell out exactly what that meant - but none the less, seems like a closed case to me. Also, this method was approached in Falling Waters as well with no success by the homeowner group.
"Concerning subdivision fee's such as the 200.00 per year for Eeagle Ridge and what ever Timberland pays could be dropped and the maintance fee added to the raised operating revenue in the higher sewer and water charge. This considering, to date, we have not had a quality subdivision meeting in 3 years.(nice Idea immediate relief.) Why pay twice?"
Timberland pays the same. What is being confused here is the purpose and role of DRCD. Keep in mind that the DRCD provides water, sewer, and watershed management. It is a taxing entity. The $200 per year is for your homeowner's association to pay for lanscaping at the entrances, the lights at the entrances, common areas, snowplowing, etc. The DRCD cannot cross over into these areas as it is a taxing authority with specific responsibilities as outlined by Indiana State Law. I'm not a lawyer and may be wrong here - but plowing streets and planting flowers is not the duty of of a conservancy district anywhere in the state.
Part 2....
"No offence Dickie, I don't give a s... about the impact I am a truth man.Just business"
No offense taken. But let's look a the business side of things and there are two buildings next door to each other. If you owned a pizza place and in Location A you sold your pizza and kept the profit. In Location B, you sell the pizza, but the building owner requires you to pay $1.00 per pizza sold - which location would you choose? Now equate this back to the developer front. If I am a developer and I can build over by the Brassie and pay tax on only the value of the lot or build in the DRCD and pay $1750 per lot - where am I going to build? Yep...over by the Brassie. I wouldn't want to carry either one of those additional costs that come straight out of my pocket. The developers won't walk away from building in the district, they will turn around and in a cloud of smoke and the sound of squealing tires will be gone. You may view this as projections, but with 12 year in the building products industry selling to developers, owners, contractors, and distributors....I have a pretty good idea of how these guys think. There's not as much profit in a house as you might think. You can estimate the cost of building at www.get-a-quote.net. According to http://www.byoh.com/costestimating.htm, Average price is between $65 & $110 per square foot. Let's take the lower middle end - $75 x 2400 sq ft = $180K. Brookstones are listed at $259,900. $80,000 per house. Don't forget to add in the business insurance (not cheap in the construction industry), workman's comp insurance, engineering fees, income taxes, real estate taxes, permits, overhead, connection fees, licences, land, employees, realtor fees, etc. This is only the construction cost. Lot cost of $30K, Profit of $104K before overhead. Once you factor in all of these costs - there isn't much left when building Tract like our area is. This is why you have seen the likes of Pulte, DR Horton, etc going bankrupt. It's all about the volume of building and selling.
"Some of us could pool together for equipment to perform the maintanace services..."
Keep in mind that the DRCD is for water, sewer, and watershed management. Basically a construction company would need to be set up and would be subject to all of the qualifications I outlined earlier. There's a lot more to it - and a lot more costs associated with this proposal. I'm all for somebody grabbing the reins and setting up a fully licenced company to take care of the things they can. You will also need to get a contract with Indiana American Water as they maintain the water lines with their own labor forces. IDEM permits and county would also be required for any work on on the sewer lines and all to be approved by the Porter County Plan Commission and water regulatory boards and County Council and etc. Again, at a 10,000 foot view it seems great. But getting down to the details there is a lot more to it. Also, anyone under 18 would likely not be permitted to work for this type of company due to the nature of the construction insurance.
Perhaps you were referring to the common area maintenance. This could be done - but is a separate issue from the DRCD. This would fall under the HOA. If we do hire from the subdivision kids and people, we will certainly need to up the insurance and include workman's comp. Say Mr. Smith's 16 year old son is planting flowers at the entrance and cuts his toe off with a shovel. That will be the HOA's problem to deal with and insurance will be required to be carried. Then the lawsuits fly. Now there's a HUGE problem. I'm OK with using contractors that already carry this insurance on their employees. Much as the liability issues you have brought up with the park in Eagle Ridge. I'm not in Eagle Ridge so I'm not familiar with these issues and can't comment intelligently to the site and/or issues there.
Part 3....
"Q- If after 26 years pass and the assessment fee is paid off and the next day a new home is sold is that familly free of the assessment?"
This is a pretty loaded question - but here goes...
Truth be told that in 26 years when the debt is retired there will be no further taxes imposed on ANY lot and/or house that is built. Now - let me qualify as well. By this time there will be needs for infrastructure upgrades, replacement, etc. I'm sure you have all seen the problems in both Chesterton and Porter where the sewer lines have been breached due to the age of the pipes. Basically rainwater is leaking into the sewage lines and creating a nightmare at the sewer processing facility. They are both currently developing plans to correct these situations - but they are having the same problem...how do we pay for it. Also, if you remember last summer when Porter Ave was closed around 8th street. This was due to a line that eventually collapsed and had to be replaced. This was for water runoff and not sanitary lines. There will be need for some of this during this time. But at that point, you are talking about a couple of million rather than 12 million - resulting in a very small tax rather than what we are seeing right now due to the enormous undertaking of running lines from 149 to Timberland. Take a look at the tax rates from Valpo Lakes Conservancy and Indian Boundary Conservancy for what the DRCD will look like in that time frame.
"What benefit monetary gain do we receive? What monetary benefit do the developers get?"
Monetary gain for you?
1. Home value and easier resell. We would not have moved out here if it was well and septic. No question. We would have kept on looking
2. No maintenance of your well and septic. Septic tanks are VERY expensive to put in, not to mention you would have a 1 acre lot. County minimum for septic. This would obviously cost more money on the land purchase.
3. Don't have to pump the septic tank every 2 years and you don't have to maintain you pipes by using chemicals
4. Your water won't go out when the electricity goes out.
5. no water softener expense - and no salt to buy every month.
6. Additional cleaning of the exterior and of the plumbing fixtures. Ever driven through Fox Chase and seen the Orange sidewalks and siding? That's the iron in the water when it is not run through a water softener. You'll also have that in your sinks and toilets.
7. Many other costs associated with Well/Septic and the regulations are getting tighter from the county/IDEM/State/Feds. A friend of ours just had to replace his septic a couple of years ago. It was about 35 years old and was leaking (not good for IDEM). It was in excess of $10,000. It also needs to be inspected annually.
Part 4....
"I guess my point is does the money end up being packaged into the home and lot price for the business's and nothing for the home owners who retired the debt?
Should I sell and come back is 26 years?"
Directly in the lot price? No. From a resale standpoint? Yes. Homes on public utilities are more likely to sell faster. Thus you are not tied up for 90 to 120 to 180 days trying to sell. Take a look at Realtor.com and look at Fox Chase. Lower sell price at 13 Stonegate and it's been on the market 99 days - presuming it hasn't been relisted. 10 Covington is only showing 20 days on the market - but I think it has been relisted.
The fees are recovered by the district through the Connection Fee that is now being charged. This fee has also been increased dramatically in order to go to the operating budget and the taxes go to debt retirement. Will that be a line item on your sales disclosure - no. IMHO will you sell faster - Yes, as you will attract buyers that are not interested in well/septic - such as myself when we were looking.
Obviously you need to make the decision to sell and come back in 26 years based on what is best for you and your family. If you came back in 26 years would the DRCD tax be significantly lower? Yes. Would you be in a 26 year old house serviced by 30 year old infrastructure? Yes. For me, clean water is worth the extra $150 per month in tax. I'm used to paying the water/sewer fees.
If we are just looking at our tax bill and complaining, then I guess the best thing to do would be to sell and move to a lower tax rate. If this is truly the largest point of your decision making then I guess it would be best.
I, however, am more concerned with liking where I live. We came from a subdivision that we didn't want to live in anymore. Simple as that. I happen to love where I live now. The schools are great, the community is great, the location is perfect, and I can't say enough about my neighbors - they are awesome!
But each of us has a different reason for living where we live.
In closing - and sorry for the long and multiple posts - we are all ripping out each other's eyes. That to me is truly a sad statement. It's become "us" and "them" rather than "What's done is done - now, how do we go forward?" Here we are again with the 2 year old argument of "I was never told." or "They're screwing us!" or "I never would have bought here if I had known."
Questions you have to ask youself - if after knowing about this for 3 tax cycles now....If you never would have bought here, why are you still here? I have to reason that there are other factors as to why you chose to stay.
And don't say that "I can't sell my house because of the tax!" I call "Bull-Poop". How did they virtually sell out Timberland this year? It's not through lack of disclosure. There IS a form that goes to closing now. There IS information that is out there to research now.
I say thank you also for your son and his commitment to citizenship
and his country.
(one I feel every American should have to make)
Although I don't agree with all the conflicts we get involved in.
Rebuttal and additional questions:
1. if the rate would drop only 60 dollars per year how much will it go up if we don't apply the fee to these lots. If the fear of the developers leaving if the fee was applied is an issue I don't see how this simple logic wasn't considered before.
2. The annexation by Chesterton was a posted letter dated in 2002 and the lawyer acknowledging that inevitability was the current one employed by Chad.
Read below,this a portion of the letter from the 2002 meeting:
“Basically what you’re doing is developing Liberty Township,” Member Scot McCord ventured.
Hollenbeck did not disagree.
You’re willing to pay the costs of constructing the new main line? McCord asked.
“Everything being reasonable,” Hollenbeck said, “we’re willing to consider anything.”
If and when the Town of Chesterton expands south—and pursuant to the recently formulated policy of the Service Board—Damon Run would have to be annexed, McCord continued.
Hollenbeck indicated that he understood.
very interesting would you agree?
3. As far as the Falling Waters issue can someone tell me who the lawyer representing the freeholders was? I think its the same lawyer we have, isn't it? So you say it failed?
4. The subdivision fee of 200.00/yr can be voted down once control is transferred. The common grounds can be transferred back to the DRCD for maintance.They are of no advantage to us and the conservancy can't really do anything with them because of their purpose,retention of water.I checked into this and this was the responce. The key is transferr of responsibility to the home owners which changed from a percentage to 100% sold out.Thats probably why Jack took the for sale down on the lot next to me. The rational behind this is that the DRCD is responsible for common areas in the Conservancy. As far as plowing streets isn't that the tax part of my cost? I will read more and add later.
end part 1
part 2 Rebuttal and additional questions to
DickieH
5. I understand pizza and business because we operated one for 11 years in Chicago. I would go with location A, keep the profit. I also understand home purchasing. I have bought 3 new homes in the past 18 years in Dyer, Kouts and now here.If I would have known about the assesment fee I ( if a jeep could)would have left rubber leaving. How do you not see the same logic applied to a person purchasing a home and that of your developers/builders reaction? Do they plan to tell the people about, not only the Conservancy Dist.,the assesment fee and an estimate of the amount they will pay? I was told about the Conservancy Dist.,but I didn't know that was a coded message for 3,300.00 dollars a year!!!
As far as profit don't forget the lower wages through non-union workers.
6. Concerning the maintanence and cost to the HOA its not as easy as I suggested I concede but is workmans comp mandatory? Does the person doing it now have it? The person before? As far as the insurance issue and the park that is a good point I brought it out in an earlier email. I talked to the Conservancy Board (the sameones that are our HOA) about liability and the insurance issues concerning the playground/parks within the subdivisions. They informed me the park is inclusive to the subdivision. No company/public, parties/picnics or any other type of events open to the public are allowed to be held in the park.I expect Chad, as the new board member, will see that this is complied with so as to alleviate liability concerns of the HOA.
end of part 2
I guess the move back in 26yrs was a tougue in cheek remark. I knew the answer before I asked.
moving on:
7.Have you had a septic and well system? I did in Kouts. The septic system, if put in properly and maintained, is great and ECO friendly. Nominal cost and is figured into the lot cost of which mine was 33,000.00.
The well water was in a sandly gound area with good filtration.I added a reverse osmosis water filtration system for 3,100.00 when I moved in. I had just over 1 acre of land. My house sold in less then 90 days and one of the biggest reasons was independence form water and sewer costs. Lets see 3,300 x 5yrs is 16,000 (based on todays figures)
plus the water and sewer charge/bill. vs a 3,100.00 filter system and electricity for the water pump. The only thing negative at times was water pressure outside (not inside) and the changing of the filters on the water system. I did have to buy salt also but the filter system I purchased used minimal salt. The cost is nowhere near the cost here. The convenience the same. I did not have to use chemicals just ocassional redex or yeast at the most and was instructed to pump every 4-5 years at a cost of 75 to 150 depending on who you used.I had a backup generator with the water pump breaker on it. No additional cost because I took it with me for power outages here.No problem with the discoloration just clean the siding or choose a color that it won't show as much on. Replacement after 35 years are you kidding me? Lets see todays money of 3,300.00 x 26 = 85,000.00 plus water sewer charge 150.00 x 106 (X 2 months)= 15,900.00 total 100,900.00 WOW. I doubt the replacement will cost this much and these figures are only for 26 yrs not 35 yrs.
end of part 3
Well you are right about making a choice to stay or not. Neighbors are Neighbors the good the bad and the ugly same everywhere. The point is hang with who you want
and at the very least respect all others.
I have 1 neighbor that talks to me only when I buy something. How much ...etc Other neighbors don't bother because they let others tell them about you and then are spineless to find out for themselves and offending their friend, or are they their friend?
I learned in the service during a bullshit war to just take a deep breath and then think to yourself "it ain't about nothing" and move on. Thats how we relieved our stress when it didn't seem to make sense which was most of the time.
Why am I still here you ask? After my daughter graduates I probably won't be. Its not because of the neighbors, the majority are very nice. I won't tell you I can't sell my house nor what I probably will get for it or how long it will take.I agree the area is beautiful and I do for the most part like the community.
The reason will probably be the control of the conservancy board and the lack of openiness.(outside of the regular board meetings)If freeholder meetings get scheduled regularly, like some have suggested and agreed to,and go well that would be a huge step.
DickieH you seem to want me to feel ashamed to complain about the process that was used to bring me here. Ashamed to want to hold the people accountable for the deception. You say Timberland has virtually sold out this year. That a form is now supplied at closing. If I took that at face value I would disservice myself so I ask you:
How long ago did the form come out? How many homes were left to sell when it did? What type of price are they bringing? What information does the form include? Does it compute examples of the fee amount? Does it talk about whats coming due at the end of the year?
Does it just say you live in a Conservancy District like you mention in the 7th paragraph of blog responce #1. Like that means something. Why isn't the fee mentioned on the website?
I believe in telling people the truth and the whole story not just the part you like or only the good. I hate liars and decievers!
(not you)
That DickieH is how my time in Damon Run Conservancy began so forgive the bad taste in my mouth. I want to do as much as I can for the freeholders not the developers or the builders (do have to work with them though). I see the same old names being brought up early in the ball game and the resistance to open forums being conducted. Until I actually see one I will suspect corruption.I plan to stay and fight but I have a 2 1/2 year limit to see some change.
Oh I can move if I want DickieH, I work for a national railway organization. All I have to do is apply for a job somewhere and they will relocate me and buy my house then resell it if they can or it will sit empty for awhile either way it won't be my concern.
The trouble is I see a struggle worth fighting for and I want the decievers held accountable and anyone else who plans to use this as a personal opportunity for gain ,at the expence of the already abused freeholders, to pay.
Chads on the board now and I will do whats necessary to help but not blindly. When the new positions become available I plan to run. Like I said 2 1/2 years if progress is being made and the ENTIRE COMMUNITY IS ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED through an open forum with a face to face exchange of ideas I could see retiring here.
Thomas A Graziosi
226 Golden Eagle Dr
Eagle Ridge Subdivision
graziosi.thomas@gmail.com
312.907.4313
what are the benfits of getting annexed by Chesterton? Has any ine looked into that being an option?
Hey worried read 4 blogs above you item 2 in that blog.
Then call Chad thats his lawyer.
@Tom
Rebuttal and additional questions:
"1. if the rate would drop only 60 dollars per year.."
The Umbaugh plan actually addresses this and give projected buildout which actually looks very resaonable. It's on the district's website.
"2. The annexation by Chesterton was a posted letter dated in 2002..."
Little bit of History on the district. The Timberland Subdivision was proposed to be annexed. Eagle Ridge wasn't even in development yet and was a different developer. I don't know what happened with Chesterton, but I can construe that due to the distance to Eagle, it was too far for Chesterton to go - and the proximity to Portage utilities. Here's the link to the article: http://chestertontribune.com/Town%20of%20Chesterton/damon_run_conservancy_district_.htm
This was also in 2002. Timberland didn't develop until much later. When the developer changed - so did the lawyer.
3. Falling Waters - The lawyer was in fact the same. Dave Hollenbeck is still the attorney for the Falling Waters district.
4. I think there is some confusion on the HOA vs. the DRCD. HOA is very different, but can control common areas in regards to watershed management. HOA (i.e. the $200) makes sure the subdivision looks good and is up to covenants. I've been involved in them and think they are a good thing. $200 is actually cheap compared to others. Basically making sure dog poop is picked up, yards are mowed, fences are compliant, new buildings are within covenants, etc.
5. "How do you not see the same logic applied to a person purchasing a home and that of your developers/builders reaction?"
As a business owner you did your research. As a home owner the research wasn't done - by many up to and including myself, but I too was surprised at how high. I did know about it and some of the estimates and chose to build anyway. We like the area. We made the choice.
As far as the developers, not sure what you are asking - but the same developer has been responsible for adding almost all the homes to district. That has lowered the taxes.
6. "Concerning the maintanence and cost to the HOA its not as easy as I suggested I concede but is workmans comp mandatory? Does the person doing it now have it? The person before?"
If they have employees, they will have insurance. If they don't - it is their problem and not the district's problem. Ultimately, the liability won't fall on the district.
"No company/public, parties/picnics or any other type of events open to the public are allowed to be held in the park."
Then what's the point of having a park?? Again, I don't live there or have even been in the common area.
7. I have not had a well and septic before - by design. I didn't and don't want the hassle of septic/well. I did talk with my friend who had his replaced and it was $5400.00 plus the cost of the lanscaping and maintenance. You are much more versed in this area and I'll defer. I just prefer the clean water without the hassle.
I don't want you to be ashamed - however you seem to want to post your points without allowing a rebuttal. This is what is great - differing opinions on a very critical subject.
Comments like these make me want to start deleting posts: " and then are spineless to find out for themselves and offending their friend, or are they their friend?" I've asked repeatedly that this not be a bash yoru neighbor session as it does no good for the District and this original post isn't even about your neighbors of HOA's..but I digress and move on.
Bottom line is that I'm questioning even posting anything else about the DRCD as this discussion board has turned to something that doesn't even resemble the original post. While I'm glad people are reading and educating, It's sad to see it turn to bash a few guys which does nothing for anyone.
@worried
Chesterton is not interested in anything out here other than the hospital. Looking to "anonomyous"'s post regarding #2, this is a report from 2002. 8 years ago.
Things have changed and our Water/Sewer flows through to the Portage procesing facility. Chesterton is highly interested in the hospital and developing the 49 cooridor and not much more.
This has been widely published in both the Chesterton Trib and The Times.
@ Tom
Sorry got distracted:
"How long ago did the form come out?"
6 months or so
"How many homes were left to sell when it did?"
About 60 to 70
"What type of price are they bringing?"
Not sure why this matters - but average price is about 250K. You can check gotimberland.com
"What information does the form include? "
Haven't seen it personally. But know it exists.
"Does it compute examples of the fee amount? "
This can be computed from the public releases by the DLGF and the DRCD and what is posted in the Chesterton Trib. Not really the builder's responsibility. AV can be found on the DLGF website as well as past tax bills.
"Does it talk about whats coming due at the end of the year?"
???? The Tax? Also posted in the Chesterton Trib and by the DLGF as well as Porter County Budgets. Going forward taxes will be paid 2 times per year. Half in May and Half in November.
"Does it just say you live in a Conservancy District like you mention in the 7th paragraph of blog responce #1. "
This is also in the covenants of both subdivisions.
"Like that means something. Why isn't the fee mentioned on the website?"
It clearly states that it is a taxing entity. And the budgets, tax projections, build out projections, and meeting minutes are posted there.
Dickie, please do not take away our voice. We have fallen on death ears for far too long. Perhaps there is some neightbor bashing, why, I have no clue but it does seem to have decreased. My heart gors out to those who have been wrongly bashed and I thank all of you for the information you continue to post.
God Bless
Let's keep the blog dickie h. It is a great place to vent, get some needed information, and find solace in knowing that we are not alone in this situation.
To DickieH
quote
"however you seem to want to post your points without allowing a rebuttal."
Interesting observation but completely off the mark! I'm sorry was I suppose to just agree with you? I welcome the diologe but please don't try to analyze me.
No more negative neighbor remarks
your site and I will respect.
The park is for the subdivision's use. No outside public events are to beheld in the park. That was from the HOA and it was centered around liability.I don't know what else to tell you.
As far as the form you say you didn't see it but know it exists?Can I ask who told you? Do you feel good about this process of information dissemination currently in place? These are rhetorical no responce necessary. My impression is you do.
House prices concern me because of resale. There is a house in Eagle Ridge that sold 5 months ago and is now back on the market and listed at 229,000.00. I don't know what it originally was selling for but I do know its a half block from 300,000.00 plus homes. They are losing their curb apeal and uniqueness and starting to look like cookie cutter homes.
At the last meeting of the DRCD (before the election)they stated the home sale and assessment amounts were based on very aggressive home sale estimates. From your account of home sales in Timberland in the last 6 months they appear to be right on target. Thats great. So I won't be looking to hear any excuses like last December when we climbed 400.00 higher because their projections were over estimated.
Look you got a great blog site here and I hope you keep it up. Its the only information outlet for most of us. If you want to thank someone thank "GT" they actually got it kicked into high gear.(first blog)
I agree to disagree. Ah,its a great country!
Thanks DickieH
Thomas A Graziosi
Chad, how is it going on the meeting date?
Can I seriously ask a few question here?
Why is it up to Chad to schedule a meeting? Why does everyone look to Chad for the answers?
Why does nobody else take the responsibility and the time to schedule the meeting? Why is nobody else willing to take the reigns? I mean c'mon....
Because of the following:
(GT)
Well, Chad I do believe I received an email showing how much funds we had left and that there was a need for additional monies. I will search through and find it.
Chad I figured, of all people you would be receptive to the setting up of the meeting.
If I do set the meeting up will you convey the info to your 150 email list?
Blood sweat and tears uh? Very dramatic.
(Chad)
What I was trying to say is that I was not looking for those who had already donated to donate more. Can we please drop the sarcasm?
I will set up the first meeting if you would like me to. I just need some input from people on what days and times would work best. Feel free to let me know in a post on here. Wednesdays are pretty much the only bad evening for me.
The goal here is to bring people together not tear them apart. I do think it is important to hear from everyone and address(if we can) their concerns.
Thanks,
Chad
(GT)
GT said...
I agree Chad.Time is the only issue with me unless Saturday works otherwise 7pm?
March 17, 2010 11:53 AM
(GT)
GT said...
Its not me Chad. I said I agree and was content with the plan.
These meetings will be important for several reasons:
1.face to face communication
2.quality of information
3.quality of discussion
4.open forum community getting together.
PLEASE, EVERYBODY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS!
March 18, 2010 5:03 AM
(CHAD)
Chad Littlewood said...
@GT - What's not you?
I agree with your points.
Chad
March 18, 2010 7:12 AM
(GT)
GT said...
Your right. I was talking about all the other stuff that showed up after.
We're cool.
March 18, 2010 7:49 AM
(GT)
GT said...
Chad, how is it going on the meeting date?
March 26, 2010 3:33 PM
The above should explain it. I requested it and wanted to and asked Chad if he would send the info to his email list.
Chad then said he would.
For your information,DickieH,I promoted the idea of a pre-election gathering for everyone to meet the board member candidates. This was designed for each to promote their qualifications, answer questions and communicate their vision for the district.
Chad declined by saying he had nothing to add that they didn't already know? Why? Self interest.
He had the mic and didn't want to risk a comparison to someone else.
The conservancy first and Chad
2nd?
That took care of the email list and left us with a door to door option with little time and didn't work well.
There are people trying but without the numbers and email list to reach people its difficult.
Why does he guard the list so tightly you ask? I believe so when the board is able to expand he can use it to promote others in his group such as CP, RW and so on.
Wow...now I feel as if I'm under attack.
For your information (really?? Really??)...you stopped by my door as well. You have no Idea who I was, nor did you ask my name. Only that you wanted to make sure that everyone knew about the meeting and that the meetings were moved "To a workin' man's time." I actually chuckled a bit as I've got as much info and possibly more than any of the posters on this website. Also, it would have been a good time to compile a contact list - something that wasn't taken advantage of during the door to door visits.
Going forward, please don't "For your information" me. This is why I'm ready to shut this whole thing down. Comments like this are absolutely uncalled for and will not be tolerated. You have been warned - again - "anonymous." I'm sure this will be called "censorship" but look back and copy and paste how many times I've asked nicely. Now it's not so nice.
I still have to ask the question. If a free holder meeting is of such critical importance, why has it not been set up? Why has nobody grabbed the reins?
With 107 comments on this site - many of which are borderline inappropriate I don't have the desire to re-read each and every one of them.
Under attack?? I'm sorry you feel that way it was a general statement to an incorrect question you asked earlier. A responce to your assertion that Chad is doing everything or being asked to do everything.(I was anonymous)my mistake.I felt your questions were put in such a sarcastic manner and made an inappropriate impression that Chad was the only cross bearer.
I believe the blog responce that came after your question for which you didn't even acknowledge answered your questions but you didn't even acknowledge it.
I qoute
" If I do set the meeting up will you convey it to your 150 email list?"
This was the one you should have noted and showed your questions as incorrect. Chad then responded
"I will set up the first meeting if you would like me to. I just need some input from people on what days and times would work best. Feel free to let me know in a post on here. Wednesdays are pretty much the only bad evening for me."
If he dosen't soon I will and it will be door to door to relay the info. Maybe this time you can introduce yourself.
During the door to door pre-election info letter we did try to compile a list. The ones that answered gave their email. Most weren't home or a later time was used with no contact and the info was left attached to the mail box. Instructions were if they were unable to drop the ballot off at the drop point during the bankers hours listed, no weekends,to drop it off at the house and it would be taken in to the meeting.
No telling how many Chad votes we delivered that day. Conservancey first remember.
As far as working man hours you referred to, I believe most meeting of that nature do begin at 7pm.
When we stopped by during our information delivery some people weren't very interested and seemed to want to take the paper and shut the door. We weren't there to bother anyone and didn't want to hold anybody any longer then thay wanted. We introduced ourselves like we should after all we did knock on the door but some chose not to introduce themselves. Again we weren't There to inconvience anybody just get the infor out. Alot of people didn't know about the drop off point or the hours.
Don't you believe meetings could be positive and strengthen the community?
hmmm, tried a few times to post but my comments are not being posted.....
Wow. Now being accused of censoring comments. Well, I guess you guys are making my decision easy on this one.
No posts have been deleted, nor have any been withheld from public view. Could it be possible censored AKA that you mis-typed the verification word and didn't see the confirmation that your post had been submitted? Were your posts too long? I've also noticed that I've had to submit twice when posting lately. Not sure why - probably a problem with the website.
Unreal.....
I won't even get into the under attack and how you approached me at my door. No introductions as to who you were, just were you aware there was an election. But I digress.
Personally, I have advocated for a "town hall" style meeting with the board in order to allow freeholders the time to ask questions - rather than taking up time shouting at the board that has been evident at almost every board meeting. However seeing the comments on these boards I wonder if a fist fight would break out. No, that's not sarcasm - that's a legitimate question.
So GT, when is the meeting?
You should receive this message at the top of the page when it reloads after posting:
"Your comment has been saved.
It may take a moment for your comment to appear on the site."
I guess we can just do like the media and predict the out come and therefore the excuse for the reason not to have it.
I think we are all adults here and don't believe that would happen. I am thinking positive on this one. If it does happen the ploice station is close by to solve it.
I ,like you, believe alot of the above comments are degrading and I don't think they would be introduced at the meeting. Some of the others were constructive,true and Chad varified them. What do they have to do with anything was a question asked. Well integrity. If you bash someone and label them the enemy but admit to a history of working with and for them it leads me to believe I am being deceived.
Would I ask these at the forum? No, I want to meet people gauge their thoughts display mine and view likely candidates. I love to debate and don't mind rebuttals to my views. I don't pretend to have all the answers and welcome those that do. Seems some give an answer to a person and if that person questions the answer its not welcomed. I know how to say sorry I was wrong. Does anyone else here?
I don't like a discussion or debate when some people pick out insignificant points and want to debate them or scold the person.
Of anybody on this site I have offered to and have participated in assisting the conservancy.
I know we have regular board meetings but they are short and have alot of important regular business that takes place.
I believe the meetings held with Chad and the freeholders in a more open forum where his views could be discussed and alternate veiws entertained and a majority view assesed in front of everybody would work well.This would be true Democracy at work.
The only thing in place now is Chad tells you well no one or only a few people liked the idea. How silly is that? Thats a dictator aproach.Or you propose a good idea and he floats it as his! If I am going to sit and think of possible solutions or create ideas for the Conservancy I would at least like to get credit.
Last, a face to face is an eye to eye. Anybody can hide behind an email. Truth is in the eyes and face. I'm not saying anything negative here just a fact. If you take enough psychology courses you learn this. The eyes and non-verbal movement and expressions tell 90% of the story.
I see you brought the under attack and.... I am not going to go there either except to add that you could have acknowledged and thanked me for the effort given to get the information out and the picking up and dropping off of the ballots. Thus accepting the fact that others are helping not just Chad. He just has more people promoting him out their.
Well, DickieH, I emailed Chad Saturday to see how the scheduling of the meeting was going. Remember a few blogs up where I was going to but then he said he would?
I have yet to get a responce back. If I don't hear back in a week on any of the questions asked then I will request a refund of my donation and begin working on the scheduling of the meeting like I said in the forth blog above yours in the 4th paragraph.
Don't you read these?
Hello Hello anyone there?
Thea thea thea thats all folks!
Is it true the hospital has chosen Chesterton?
I see the Liberty Township land owners have lost their appeal on the rezoning issue.
I also see the hospital is looking for a tax abatement. The money man all about the money!
Not only were they not interested in paying the assesment thay don't want to pay their share of taxes.
They are a for profit company now with operations headquartered in TN.
Duped 2 or strike 2 I mean.
Actually, there has been no information given by the hospital regarding the services to be provided. Going forward, please provide a link to where this information is coming from otherwise it will be dismissed as rumor and will subsequently be deleted. As you have mentioned, all about the truth right? So spreading rumor here will not be tolerated.
Furthermore, the Liberty Land Owners lost their appeal several months ago - probably close to a year. This was only in regards to the rezoining issue.
This has nothing to do with paying a share of taxes - abatements are normal for this type of structure. They've also been a for profit corporation based in TN for about 2 years now.
And yes, I do read these - however I felt the conversation was going nowhere - which has proven to be true with rumor you are spreading as well as information that is well over a year old. But then again, Tom has posted info above that is from 2002 with a different developer.
Whatever.
I find it funny that you attack the one that provides this forum for comment. And by the way - you're welcome. Since you are looking for a thank you, I guess I can too, not that it was ever the intent or the point of this entire blog. You're welcome for not only for providing a forum, but also for GIVING you your information. You're welcome. You were given this information free of charge - and with no effort on your part - only mine.
However based on your recent responses I see no choice but to move these to another forum chaperoned by someone else - you are welcome to take up this task as well. I still haven't heard when you have set up the meeting by the way...
After reading ALL 114 messages, I have now forgotten what this blog was about! Somebody call somewhere & set a meeting so you can continue the pissing match there! The majority of you sound like a bunch of whinning girls that have nothing better to do than degrade each other. I'm glad you all are not my neighbors (I live in that other Nardo subdivision).
DickieH has done alot of reasearch on this & given the information for everyone to see. Can't vouch for Chad, but it seems that he has done alot of research as well. I suggest that someone goes through this mess & write down the questions that everyone has(not who put out what decorations before their neighbor) get a place where a meeting can be held & take care of business. I don't care what you think of me, I don't do politics & I firmly believe we need to stand behind Chad because he is the only one who put himself out there to try to make a difference & no I didn't vote for him so I'm not one of his cronies, groupy or whatever phrase everyone is using. Those that are complaining need to get off their soap box & become someone who is gonna help not hinder
I like dickieh's wife's responce
with a couple exceptions.
Well put.
dickieh
The items posted were correct and I found through my researching that
you claim I don't do.
The fact they were that old was not the issue. They were true and I was unaware of them so I posted them for others that may not have known.
As far as the hospital I checked the Chesterton web site and I believe that is what they are implying.Abatements maybe normal but they shift the burden to the home owners. They will use the same services why not pay? How about giving me an assessment abatement?
As for your last point, I am in the process of creating "The Uncensored DRCD" all constructive opinions good or bad to the conservancy invited without the control.
I stand corrected on the Porter County Hospital issue.
Google "Porter County Hospital IN"
Then look for "Fight to provide
hospital with sewage/water"
Its not settled yet ground breaking
in a couple of months. Good article with some positive comments and abilities pointed out for both the DRCD and Chesterton.
From reading I think we have the edge.
I don't want to get too excited after all I had Kansas in
the NCAA pool.
I see Chesterton is looking at the annexing option also.
Chesterton is looking to barrow or get federal assistance money for their 5 million cost of sewer and water expansion.
Makes me wounder why we didn't or don't.
The Chesterton home site previously mentioned was just an artist rendering of what the hospital would look like.
GT - I do believe that the article you are referencing is here:
http://nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/article_eb3ec370-2f23-51c3-9658-8179db1ca220.html
Anybody in the district who has interest in what is going on read that about 3 weeks ago.
Since you seem to be researching now (not sure what took you so long), maybe you read the below article from the Chesterton Tribune as well:
http://chestertontribune.com/Business/41102%20chestertons_pluses_are_minuses_i.htm
In case you didn't understand what the article was about, this is good news for Damon Run.
I have been sitting back watching all of this and I am amazed at how people just want to be spoon fed information. If you have a genuine interest, go out and get the information yourself. I am glad that you have decided to take some initiative, even if it is a bit late in the process.
Be careful how you use information which you think is correct. Saying things like "Is it true the hospital has chosen Chesterton?" could actually hurt the district and cause a whole lot of unwarranted concern.
If you do decide to create a forum to take this to, I hope that you are responsible about it. A simple google search of "Damon Run" will return sites such as this blog along with the good, the bad and the ugly posted on them. If the goal is to get more people in the district, we can do without the bad and the ugly.
DickieH - If I was you, I may even consider completely removing this blog entry or at very least the comments posted on here. Most of them are trash anyway (the comments, not the blog entry).
"Dickieh
The above was in September of 2009
to be more exact."
Yes, that was the final appeal. this process started up WAY before then. The Indiana Supreme Court refused to hear the case and they were dismissed based on not having contigous property to the site. Thanks for the info and the more exact timeline. 6 months rather than a year for the final issue to flush out. The original dismissal was about a year ago. Bottom line is that it didn't matter anyway and actually delayed the hospital building as they specifically stated they were waiting until the lawsuits were completed.
Chesterton is also looking to annex the other new development that is going in on the West side of 49 and 1000N. They don't have that property yet either. You can google that as well.
Perhaps they will annex all the way to 700N. Then we will get tax relif right? Wrong....Chesterton's tax rate is in excess of $2.00 per hundred. Pay me now or pay me later.
WABOS, welcome and thanks for the link. Since you are new here - I now have very little tolerance for bashing and/or anything I feel as inappropriate. Reason? What you pointed out - it does no good for the district.
I saw this link this morning, but have been on the road all day and did not have a chance to post. This is good news for the district. With the tax caps in place, Chesterton will not be able to raise the money without a special assessment IMHO. Perhaps they can, but they will have outrage on an already higher tax rate.
Back to GT, if you have been to any of the DRCD board meetings and/or read the meeting minutes (http://damonrunconservancy.com/images/minutes/minutes_2009-06-19_mtd.pdf), you will see that the DRCD also applied for stimulus funding as well. They too were waiting for the outcome from the state:
"Mr. Barko called the meeting to order. Mr. Barko announced that the sole agenda item was
the preliminary engineering reports prepared by the Duneland Group, Inc. The reports are required
to be submitted as part of the application to obtain funding for projects under the American Recovery
and Reinvestment Act."
Chesterton also enlisted the help of Congressman Visklosky as well. However, looking at what Chesterton has scored on the project - I doubt that the outcome will be any better for Liberty Township/DRCD.
Just a spoonful of sugar....
Freeholder Meeting
Monday, April 12th
7:00-8:45 PM
South Haven Library on 700 N.
Hey WABOBS
Welcome to the site. Thanks for the link and I do understand what
its about. It is good news.
Also sorry about finding the other article 3 weeks after you read it and as you say anybody else in the district who cares did.
As far as your tone and the condescending manor of your delivery I choose to respect DickieH and ignore.
My site will afford you that abilty along with mine to respond in kind.
I am trying DickieH, I am trying.
Dickieh,looks like someone posted the meeting date and site along with the time.
Well that was a great meeting.
Yes the one held on Monday, April 12 2010.
15 total on the attendance count.
Man are we in trouble.
part 1
These are the minutes from an April 8, 2009 Porter County Government regular meeting.
Which Chad is this? Why the change Chad? What's in it for you?
Chad Littlewood, 224 Goldeneagle Drive. There are a multitude of items I which I would like to discuss but I think we should start with the tax issues. Starting with our tax bills at the end of February an additional tax for Damon Run was added. This increased my property tax bill for 2007 payable in 2008 by 92%. Although we were made aware of this tax by news letter in October of 2008 our concerns at that point fell on deaf ears. I personally know of multiple phone calls that were made to the district once the news letter was received. Even though messages were left, no calls were ever returned. My concern isn’t that we were not made aware of this tax but that we were made aware only two months before we it was supposed to be billed. This is something that should have been brought to our attention before closing on our house that is within the district. There was no attempt by Strathmore Development or in my case, Nardo Builders, to convey to me that I would be paying taxes to live in Eagle Ridge. I as a tax payer had a right to know that I was moving into the district with a $12 million dollar debt that I would be partially responsible for repaying. I think it was reprehensible and extremely dishonest that we were not made aware of this. It was obviously in the developers best interest to keep this information hidden so that they could sell as many lots or houses that they have up to this point. I also believe that the developer is using his position on the districts board to keep from having to pay his fair share of the debt. Once payment was given to the developer for all infrastructure and improvements by Damon Run, he was at that moment just another free-holder within the district. The tax should not be based on assessed value. All lots whether built on or not are benefited equally and should therefore share equal tax burden. Let me state that I have no problem with conservancy districts in general. I believe that the purposes of the district benefit all the residents and for that we should be grateful. I do, however, have issues with the way that Damon Run is being operated at this point. The County Commissioners first appointed three board members for Damon Run on February 17, 2004. Between that date and March of 2006 three new directors somehow found their way on the board. Those directors are John Barko, Bernard Madej and Jennifer Beauchamp. There seem to be no documents including meeting minutes, which are required by State Statute, to show the changing of the Board. I have also asked for the nominating petitions for each of them, which should have been signed by five free-holders as well as the newspaper notices for 2005 and 2006 election, both also required by State Statute. They have not been able to produce those. I believe that the free-holders in the district deserve to have Board members who actual have their best interest in mind.
part 2
I have asked Bill Ferngren the lawyer for Damon Run to add a request for extending the Board to five for their main agenda. I understand that you may have no legal authority over the district but I believe you have a lot of influence over the current Board members decision. I am hoping that if nothing else comes of this meeting at least you will agree to help influence to them to provide full disclosure of what you are getting into when they purchase a home in the district. I think the consumer’s deserve to know that the district has a $12 million dollar debt and that they will be paying taxes for the next 20 years or so to alleviate that debt. The current free-holders received future free-holders do not have to endure that. If the developer holds up his end of the bargain, maybe our neighborhoods as nice and upscale as he initially said it would be they would not be such a hard sale. However, nobody is going to want to pay these high taxes with the neighborhood’s and the condition they are in currently.
To find google Porter County Government, then click meeting minutes and then pick April 8 2009.
Go to page 13.
We was duped again seems like!!
Match parts 1 and 2 with Chads Q & A throughout this blog.
Then you decide. If Chad lets you.
Anonymous, I think you must be a complete moron. That is the only explanation I can come up with for your lack of understanding. You are asking chad why the change and by that I am assuming you are talking about his stance on the tax change. If you had read his responses in this blog as well as his emails then you would know "Why the change". Those minutes were from April of 2009, a lot has changed since then. I do not know chad on a personal level but I do know that I have gotten a whole lot of information from him that I otherwise would not have received. Instead of sitting out on some blog site (which may have about 5 readers at this point), bitching about the people trying to make a difference, maybe, just maybe, you should get off your ass and actually try to make a difference yourself. Just a thought.
Hey SODAP take a break will ya!
Your just another brainwashed drinking buddy of Chad that needs to get a life.
I have (4) 3 inch binders full of research information. Nothing has changed except for Chad. How can someone make such a passionate plea a short time ago and then see things so differently.
Look these are my views. What's changed hotshot? Instead of shooting your mouth off about how much you love Chad why don't you put something out to support your claim.
I qoute you
" Those minutes were from April of 2009"
As if you really said something intellegent there!
Get a life and learn to not be so personal in your responce.
First of all, I don't even drink. As far as having a life goes, that is not worth a response.
How can someone make such a passionate plea a short time ago and then see things so differently.
Like I said in my previous post, chad answered that already. I for one am glad that he realized that the road we were heading down could have had extremely dangerous consequences.
Instead of shooting your mouth off about how much you love Chad why don't you put something out to support your claim.
What claim did I make besides that I think you are a complete moron? (I stand by that claim 100%, especially after looking at your grammar).
As if you really said something intellegent there!
intellegent? really? let's talk about saying something intelligent lmao.
I have (4) 3 inch binders full of research information.
If you have so much information then why don't you share something with everyone that people might actually care about?
SODAP
Again no facts to dispute what was in the minutes of the board meeting.
I'm not even going to address the rest of you silly comments.
The road we travel is still dangerous.That soon will change. I now know unless you have a lawyer nothing will change. The only difference is I will fund it myself.This way I won't have to deal with pinheads like you.
No I won't share my info with you get off your ass and get it yourself.Your man Chad dosen't share with us.
Moron? What are you 10 y/o?
Speaking of grammer what kind is this?
" If you have so much information then why don't you share something with everyone that people might actually care about?"
Dah!
People like you make me sick.
I'm still confused as to what there is to dispute, please explain yourself.
I hope for the sake of all freeholders that you are very careful with your solo legal battle. One freeholder's stupidity could cause the rest of the freeholders pain.
As far as sharing information, there have been a few occasions where I have had questions and chad has been more than willing to share the info that he has. Have you asked him for information? I am willing to bet that you are one of those people who just likes to complain about everything. I am pretty sure you have not even asked him for info. If you have asked and he has not given it to you, then I am sure that it is because you are an ignorant moron. I am sticking with moron due to the meaning: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moron - That seems to fit you perfectly.
You were correct, I did forget a comma and I apologize!
Dah?? What the hell is that?
People like you make me laugh, you are not worth getting sick over.
Good luck with your legal battle, hopefully you don't end up screwing over the rest of us in the process. I'm sure that if you did, the act of existing would not be much fun for you anymore.
SODAP
O K simple simon.
Just out of curiosity, if I did ask Chad for information what version would I get? Seems he changes at the drop of a hat.This
was the point I was trying to make before you made it personal.
You said alot of things have changed but failed to mention what they were.From what Chad said,in the minutes, we don't even have a legitimate board? Has that changed too?
We are just following the money trail. That usually leads to the problem and it is getting interesting.
You sound like a Republican. Take the attention form the real issue and focus it on a non-issue.
Call me what you want you are insignificant to me, besides, that last line would only come from a punk hiding behind a blog site.
I guess you will have to ask youself how far are you willing to go?
I am referring to the last sentence in your blog.
If you haven't asked him then I suppose you have no clue what you would get. From what I remember from chad's emails, his mind was not changed at the drop of a hat. He found crucial information (from this blog actually) that had a direct impact on which direction we should be heading. Maybe you should re-read the blog that you are commenting on and you would understand! Again, I am glad he found it and I am glad that DickieH put it out here.
Good luck again with the money trail, I just really hope that whatever you do does not end up costing the rest of us more or putting us in a position where we are stagnant instead of progressing.
I am a punk? I am hiding? That is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black :-)
How far I am willing to go is not important. You will have enough enemies if you screw things up for everyone that I will just be able to sit back and watch! ;-)
O K chad whatever you say.
Good try..... but way off lol
I think I am right on.
I am sure you do! But alas, you aren't within 5 miles of being correct. If you are that concerned about it, I suppose we can play the guessing game.
part 1
Hey SODAP
No games thanks anyway I prefer to get back to the point and it is:
These are the minutes from an April 8, 2009 Porter County Government regular meeting.
Which Chad is this? Why the change Chad? What's in it for you?
Chad Littlewood, 224 Goldeneagle Drive. There are a multitude of items I which I would like to discuss but I think we should start with the tax issues. Starting with our tax bills at the end of February an additional tax for Damon Run was added. This increased my property tax bill for 2007 payable in 2008 by 92%. Although we were made aware of this tax by news letter in October of 2008 our concerns at that point fell on deaf ears. I personally know of multiple phone calls that were made to the district once the news letter was received. Even though messages were left, no calls were ever returned. My concern isn’t that we were not made aware of this tax but that we were made aware only two months before we it was supposed to be billed. This is something that should have been brought to our attention before closing on our house that is within the district. There was no attempt by Strathmore Development or in my case, Nardo Builders, to convey to me that I would be paying taxes to live in Eagle Ridge. I as a tax payer had a right to know that I was moving into the district with a $12 million dollar debt that I would be partially responsible for repaying. I think it was reprehensible and extremely dishonest that we were not made aware of this. It was obviously in the developers best interest to keep this information hidden so that they could sell as many lots or houses that they have up to this point. I also believe that the developer is using his position on the districts board to keep from having to pay his fair share of the debt. Once payment was given to the developer for all infrastructure and improvements by Damon Run, he was at that moment just another free-holder within the district. The tax should not be based on assessed value. All lots whether built on or not are benefited equally and should therefore share equal tax burden. Let me state that I have no problem with conservancy districts in general. I believe that the purposes of the district benefit all the residents and for that we should be grateful. I do, however, have issues with the way that Damon Run is being operated at this point. The County Commissioners first appointed three board members for Damon Run on February 17, 2004. Between that date and March of 2006 three new directors somehow found their way on the board. Those directors are John Barko, Bernard Madej and Jennifer Beauchamp. There seem to be no documents including meeting minutes, which are required by State Statute, to show the changing of the Board. I have also asked for the nominating petitions for each of them, which should have been signed by five free-holders as well as the newspaper notices for 2005 and 2006 election, both also required by State Statute. They have not been able to produce those. I believe that the free-holders in the district deserve to have Board members who actual have their best interest in mind.
part 2
I have asked Bill Ferngren the lawyer for Damon Run to add a request for extending the Board to five for their main agenda. I understand that you may have no legal authority over the district but I believe you have a lot of influence over the current Board members decision. I am hoping that if nothing else comes of this meeting at least you will agree to help influence to them to provide full disclosure of what you are getting into when they purchase a home in the district. I think the consumer’s deserve to know that the district has a $12 million dollar debt and that they will be paying taxes for the next 20 years or so to alleviate that debt. The current free-holders received future free-holders do not have to endure that. If the developer holds up his end of the bargain, maybe our neighborhoods as nice and upscale as he initially said it would be they would not be such a hard sale. However, nobody is going to want to pay these high taxes with the neighborhood’s and the condition they are in currently.
To find google Porter County Government, then click meeting minutes and then pick April 8 2009.
Go to page 13.
You all was duped again seems like!!
So, what is your point? Who are you asking or trying to prove your point to?
I am still confused by this. You seem to be trying to make one person look bad. If that is your goal, it seems to be backfiring on you. All you have done so far is confirm what I thought after you posted this the first time.
Here is the link to what anonymous is talking about, much easier than the convoluted instructions: http://www.porterco.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=675:april-8-2009&catid=56:plan-commission&Itemid=15
I am off to work. Now the audience is down to 1!
You seem to be confused alot.
You should get that checked out.
I made my point its time to move.
What a shame! I am sure you will be greatly missed.
Not from my house.
Again, what a shame!
Does anyone know if the builders
are paying the assesment based on the value of the lots they have?
If they are what is the amount based on? If they are not then why?
One of the stipulations in the Conservancy Act require all lots,homes and business's pay.
Another stipulation says that the tax should be applied equally to all.
Last it says without applied without discrimination
Anyone of the above not complied with would be grounds for de-annexation.
SODAP
At this point anytime a negative comment comes from you I will consider it a badge of honor.
Look at you actually trying to be productive!
Does anyone know if the builders
are paying the assesment based on the value of the lots they have?
Yes they are. You can find this information on the porter county tax site:
Click here for the tax site
If they are what is the amount based on? If they are not then why?
The assessed value. Assessments are the responsibility of the county assessor's office:
Click here for the Assessor's office
One of the stipulations in the Conservancy Act require all lots,homes and business's pay.
They do.
Another stipulation says that the tax should be applied equally to all.
It is. It is based on the same percentage of assessed value for all within the district.
Last it says without applied without discrimination
Huh? Who is being discriminated against?
Anyone of the above not complied with would be grounds for de-annexation.
Who are you trying to get de-annexed? Where did you find that information? Good luck!
You do realize that the two of us are the only ones reading this right? Just checking.
I don't care as long as I get substance to my questions.You gave me some and I thank you.
I belong to a group of concerned freeholders and we have a common cause and goal. I don't need an audience.I am not doing this to win a contest.
I think you misunderstood the withdraw/de-annexed part. If you can prove that the conservancy dealt in deception you still would have the assessment fee but could opt out of the sewer/water and therefore the operating fee they just raised.(I have proved this)
You could then pay through Portage where the sewer and water come from anyway.
I don't believe the 56 newly platted lots are paying a fee yet or are going to. Am I right?
Also what about the board other then Chad,who was elected are they legit.
What is your common cause and goal? What have you proven? Paying through Portage is an interesting theory but what would that save you after paying all the legal fees to get it accomplished? The newest lots will most likely start paying on 2010 pay 2011 tax bills, I would have to do some research to confirm this. All board members seem to be legit. They were appointed by the original board prior to them resigning.
The truth is your right but was just an option that I found available.
Thanks for the other info Its appreciated.
According to The Chesterton Times,
on May 12,the hospital will choose its utility provider. In the same paragraph it notes that the DRC is in close proximity.
Stay tuned and good luck.
The littlewoods are moving! Who will get his seat? Jack Barko will be re-apointed once the rest of the click gets put in place.
You heard it here first.
Since from your tone it is quite obvious who's "click" you are part of, I am pretty sure that nobody will believe anything you say. You have pissed way too many people off already. If by "the rest of the click" above you mean the people who actually know something about what is going on with Damon Run, then I hope you are right. I was one of the few people who did vote for Jack at the election this year and I sincerely hope that Jack does get back on the board in the upcoming election. Jack knows more about what is going on than anyone and he still has a vested interest in seeing it all succeed. So, I pray that you are right about everything you said (Except for the Littlewood's moving). I am pretty sure I speak for everyone (outside of your click) on here when I say that it would be best if you would just stay off of this website. You are not good for this website or the district at all.
So your a tone reader?
Wow your so deep and complex!
Good bye Chad Littlewood enjoy the mountains of Utah.
Chad,
Good luck with the next chapter in your life. Thank you for everything you have done for us with Damon Run, it has been appreciated. Thank you for making sure your seat was not just handed back to Jack prior to resigning as well.
We had a great time at your party, thank you for inviting us. I hope you have better luck with your neighbors in Utah. I could not believe how he just sat there and stared at everyone walking in and out of your house that night, that guy is a creep!
Happy Trails, make sure you keep in touch!
Carl
Hey Carl, if you knew the entire story and not just Chads you would have a different take on it.
How he treated that family was un-becoming of an elected official.The constant harrassment and vandalism had caused them to get a security and surveilance system installed. His wife was always being harrassed by MEN(his friends)for alledged speeding.
So Carl your the creep and follow your worthless leader because you will have a hard time thinking for your self.
Karma came around and she was pissed.
later chad.
I don't think you have the right house, Carl.
Why would I be outside watching people going to Chads house? I have video cameras and a monitor.
See Carl it's people like you that lie and start problems for others.
Carl you need to man-up and quit hiding behind blogs. You know the address so come over and meet me in person instead of through Chads eyes.
We most likely will end up having a beer together.
Tom, are you feeling guilty or something? I never mentioned who was watching or from where.
I am well aware that you have cameras since you have one aimed right at Chad's house. I have also seen the video of you sitting and staring at Chad's kids as well as other children from the neighborhood (I guess trying to hide yourself with your car didn't work), so lets not even talk about harassment! I have spoken to multiple people, not just Chad and the stories match up and point to you as the harasser. You are the problem! Your wife does fly through the neighborhood, I have witnessed that myself on a few occasions. Chad has a valid concern there, especially with all the small children on his street.
I would come over but if I wanted to be a movie star I would go to Hollywood. Besides that, I would probably end up hitting you and I think there are laws against punching senior citizens.
Carl
Carl great tough man act on a bloog site. Hollywood are you serious? Judging from your mentality it would be a "B" comedy at best? Lets say the title would be "Carl beats the crap out of another man on a bloog site" Gee, I would go see it!
Now tell me Carl just what neighbor
could you have possibly been talking about?
Everybody does the speed limit Carl? 20 mph. What vehicle does my wife drive Carl? Why are you watching my wife Carl? Hey Cary any drinking and driving going on in the neighborhood?
Yea Carl "the kids safety" thats what its all about!Like kids doing stunts on bikes in the street without pads or a helmet as the mother watches. When she is confronted about it she misses the message completely. She runs and tells a neighbor I am the bad guy because I wanted them off my drive so it wouldn't be blood stained when they fell and busted their head open. Maybe if the parents watched them more closely I wouldn't have to so as to protect my property and family.
As for the rest of your tired story nothing I could say can help you. Your just a one sided guy I guess.
Guilty? Me? I have nothing to be guilty about.Like I said anytime.If I was a betting man, Carl, I would take the wisdom of a senior citizen over the ingnorence of youth anytime.sure winner.
Hey I just thought of something, did Chad approve of your message?
Hey thanks for at least trying to understand the other side of the argument.
One last thing Carl.
The day you describe above actually whent like this: I was sitting on MY property listening to the game and working on a project in MY garage which required me to move MY jeep outside on MY drive. Whats wrong with that? I suppose you see nothing strange about him videoing me?
Carl if you want to see harrassment video come check mine out I have plenty for you. You could maybe explain to me why someone would do the things it shows to others even if they didn't
like them.
Last, yes I do have a camera pointed towards chads house because its to cover that side of my house.
Oh gees, here we go aagin. @ Tom, I am sure that Chad can blog from anywhere in this country....so I would venture to say that this problem is not over. @ Carl, I too live in this neighborhood where these two families above mentioned, have been carying on for some time now. I must say, Tom and his family are rarely even seen. I just learned a short while ago he had a daughter. Although this neighborhood is full of children and families..one of the many reasons we chose to build here, I personally have to appreciate the way Tom and his family keep to themselves. Leaving everyone alone and staying to themselves while they keep their home as far as I can see from the outside, presentable. In the three years that I have been here I have witnessed some disturbing things and heard some rather interesting stories about Mr. Littlewood. Being that I am not friendly enough with either family I would have to say that real men make up their own mind and don't let others decide who gets picked last in gym class. I am sorry I don't get to know my neighbors better and it is a shame the Littlewood family is leaving under such circumstances. Hopefully this fued between the Hatfields and the McCoys will be done and the rest of us can find a resolution to the mess this district has put us in!
Where are you CarlG? Helping Chad move?
Ha....Ha....Ha
Ummmm probably and not fast eough either. Nah nah nah nah hey hey hey good bye.
Could you guys move your fued to someone else's blog?
This is unbelievably childish.
Better yet, why don't you start your own blog about how bad it is living in your neighborhood...well, given the comments, I wouldn't call it a "neighbor"hood.
Further derogatory comments will be deleted as this is not the appropriate place for this.
I guess comments like those are the reason Chad told me he doesn't even care to look out here anymore. From those comments it is painfully obvious who was harassing who.
No GCarl, unfortunately I was unable to give him a hand with moving.
It is funny to me how Anonymous steps in and tries to be the mediator and yet still tries to throw Chad under the bus. I have read through all of the comments on this blog and for the most part chad bit his tongue even when your little group tried egging him on. It shows who the immature ones really are.
I am sure that nobody is happier to be away from the mess in that end of the neighborhood than Chad is. Good luck to the other decent people down there!
BTW Tom, what game was on at 9:30 in the morning and what kind of project entails you sitting in a chair facing Chads driveway for an hour? No need to answer, that was retorical. What kind of a person sits there and stares and laughs at other peoples children.... I know the answer to that(they are not well liked in prison)! Also, It was you sitting in your front yard on the night of Chad's party and unfortunately I have no idea why.... but you asked.
Sorry DickieH, it needed to be said. This will be my final post on here and I mean it unlike you Tom.
Carl
Again Carl one side of the story is
good enough for you, right?
Enough of you and your BS.
I can't resist.
1. The jeep was placed in the drive because of the work I was doing in the Garage.(You don't believe this because you choose to believe Chad)
2. The jeep blocked the people at Chads house from my view.(You don't believe this because you choose to believe Chad)
3. The radio channel was covering all the games,pre-game analysis.(You don't believe this because you choose to believe Chad)
4. Did that video show Chad trying to get me to start something? I didn't know he was videoing me. I do know that sky pilots wife videos out their side window alot.
(You don't believe this because you choose to believe Chad)
5. The point is I was in my well kept neat yard not bothering anyone. I find out I am secretly being video'ed and thats the best you could come up with.I think that shows I'm OK.
Hey Carl,no comment on the video I have concerning his harrassing my family?
Yes I was and I am very happy that Chad and his family have moved on and for the kids sake,I wish them well.
Chad had issues simular to yours. I hope you both work through them with success.
I guess I won't be seeing you no need for my side of the story.I dislike no one and will help anyone in need. My problem was with Chad and no one else.I can come home now and after 4 years finally relax! I recieved my Christmas gift early.
Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas to you and your family, Carl.
I won't be back here so save your responce. If you don't stop by to see for yourself then I guess you still have a lot of growing up to do.
Later Carl.
"What kind of a person sits there and stares and laughs at other peoples children.... I know the answer to that(they are not well liked in prison)!"
Gee Carl the above is a qoute from your blog. Sounds like you had experience in that area?
You can delete this one Chad bit off more then he could chew. He gone! Hell he couldn't manage his own finances
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
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Water bill raised, taxes both conservancy water/sewer dept and property up, damn!!!
Good work Chad! Oh wait he couldn't manage his own debt let along the DRCD!
Foreclosed Chad see ya!
Sky pilots gone too! yea!!!!
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